Trying to execute an estate for the first time and geting myself into a state!

19crows

Apologies in advance this is going to be a long post but i feel like I'm on the verge of insanity. Dad died in December and I'm try to wrap my head around excuting the estate.

Salient info:

Dad and mum were married.

Both had wills with an IPDT in that allowed the other to live in the house until death/care and a trust being set up. All chattels going to mum but all other funds to go into this trust I assume.

All bank accounts were joint with funds being low enough to pass to survivor. no problem.

Dad only has about £1000 in an isa

Utilities have allowed us to switch account to mums name along with the credit on account.

No credit card

No car

No expensive collections etc just normal house hold stuff

Dad had about £11500 in premium bonds - assume I'm going to Have to get probate

to get probate I'm going to have to complete an IHT report of some description and this is where I'm struggling.

Have spoken to IHT helpline and they cant tell me what forms to fill out until I find out whether they were tennants in common or joint.

Talked to land registry and they tell me house isn't registered but the parcel of land they bought about 1984 is and listed as joint tennants.

What do I do now? Have been back a forth through the forums to try to see anything that would help but haven't found anything or i'm just just phrasing the questions properly.

Also for referance the wills were drafted in 2020 by legal leggacy outfit who i now understand wound up last year.

p00hsticks

I'm sorry for your loss.

What makes you think you need to get probate ? If it's only to get access to the NS&I funds it might be worth checking with them to see if they'll release the funds without it.

And even if you do need probate, what makes you think you'll need to fill in IHT forms ? It's not always necessary ….

If the land is held as joint tenants rather than tenants in common then it would pass directly to your mother by survivorship regardless of what is in your fathers will, although I'm not sure about the added complication of then later having a house built on it ….

Keep_pedalling

Never assume anything. It is likely that only his share of their family home goes into trust. The chattels certainly won’t and will would have to state specifically that his savings would need to go into trust which is unlikely for such a small amount.

Contact NS&I regarding the bonds anything under £5k does not need probate but it is discresionary for amounts over that amount. If they will release those assets you will not need probate. What you will need to do is register the trust with HMRC but you have two years to do than.

No IHT return required as this is an excepted estate.

19crows

Thank you both for quick replies. Having reread my original post I see I've messed up a couple of things.

My parents bought the house off the council then later applied to buy the land at the side to extend the garden.

The land is registered as tennants in common but it's the original house isn't on the land registry and the original deeds say joint tennants.

I realise I messed up - apologies. My head is really messed up having spent hours on-line and on the phone.

p00hsticks

When approximately did they buy the house from the council ?

When you refer to 'the original deeds' is that for the house or the land ?

Who has the deeds now ?

Assuming it's a right to buy from the 1980;s I'm struggling to believe that it's not registered with the Land registry, but I'm no expert. .

19crows

I've got access to Both. House was purchased late 70s/early 80s. The nice lady at the land registery told me it's sadly not uncommon from that era as it wasn't compulsory.

So as it stands the extra land was registered as tennants in common but house is still technically joint.

19crows

I just wondered if mutual the life interest aspect of the IPTDs created tennants in common by default. If the house wasn't on the registery then I assume a Form A can't have been applied?

I don't understand wh they went down this route at all other than it was right on top of the Covid outbreak and they were scared.

Keep_pedalling

Does the will state that both the house and the seperate price of land go in trust? If it just the house the the bequest fails and your mother is the sole owner of the house and the his share of the land falls into the residual estate.

Frankly having no trust going forward is going to simplify things for your mother, and unless there is a strong chance she might remarry then I don’t really thing it matters if she ends up owning the land and house outright.

Land_Registry

I'm sorry to read of your loss and the issues you are facing.

I'm sure colleagues will have explained matters when you rang but if I have understood correctly the following might help re a HMLR angle if set out here.

70/80s purchase was too early in the area to trigger compulsory first registration hence the main property remains unregistered. The extra land was bought much later and separately so that will be registered as you state.

Both the property and extra land are in their joint names, namely a conveyance from the council to them both re the main property and a registered title for the extra land. If that's the case you don't need probate as when Dad died the legal ownership for both passed to Mum to deal with. The legal ownership did not form part of Dad's estate so probate is not required when dealing with the property or extra land.

The TIC and JTs aspect relates to their beneficial ownerships and does not change how the legal ownership has passed to Mum to deal with. It may however impact on IHT but that's not our area and others are posting to assist on that score.

It's also important to remember that the registered information is not definitive as to whether they were TIC or JTs. A form A restriction does not have to be applied for/registered on the title to make it so although many TICs do apply.

The conveyance from the council may mention how your parents wished to hold the main property at the time. But their wills/any trust created might have changed that later on and that appears to be the key thing to check and confirm if you have issues re IHT for example.

But for emphasis only, probate is not required re the main property or extra land if they were joint legal owners.