Probate for UK citizen with a US will and executor

gplion55

Did your father make a will in UK prior to his time abroad?

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81887832#Comment_81887832

Not sure if a UK LPA will be accepted in the US and Canada.

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81887870#Comment_81887870

Without a UK will the OP can’t apply for probate, and applying for letters of administration is plane bonkers for such a small amount of money. The US will may not even cover the UK assets.

In the OPs shoes I would get the bank to release the funds to me and tell the executor that the only UK assets are now held in cash. If they don’t want to do that do nothing and tell the executor to sort it out.

UncleTomCobley

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81887531#Comment_81887531

It's worth the OP being aware that the rules around wills and inheritance are not common across the UK and they typically differ between England & Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

The link here (for England & Wales) contains further links to the other juristictions' details (https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate).

The earlier link (https://allanjanes.com/-Can-I-Get-Probate-with-a-Foreign-Will), although states it is for the UK seems to be primarily for England & Wales - eg there is no such thing as a "UK Probate Registry".

SadCodeMan

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81887938#Comment_81887938

Sorry. I was mixing up the IHT process (on worldwise assets) with probate…

I still think some of what I said was worth bearing in mind though and wasn't all bonkers.

Additionally, neither of us know his worldwide assets. What if he has an account on the IoM. He would need English probate/LOA then and it would be 'bonkers' just to throw away the assets on the IoM for no other reason.

It obviously isn't a simple case so it might be that you could be more careful about how you word you simple answer?

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81888007#Comment_81888007

I only ment going though LoA for £1000 was bonkers. The US lawyer holding the US will has no idea on UK inheritance laws, which is probably why they are insisting on using a UK solicitor to deal with this, although the costs involved will wipe out the UK estate and a chunk of the non UK estate as well. I also suspect no UK solicitor would take this on because of the lack of UK assets to pay their bill.

It is not in the interests of any of the beneficiaries to go down this route, far better for all concerned to handle the UK parts of the estate separately under intestacy laws, which the OP can do without applying for LoA.

twist_654

The POA is only valid in the UK unfortunately so I'm not able to access the US or Canadian accounts. The US lawyer has also said that the UK probate administration has to be applied for first as he is domiciled here. She said the designation of personal representative would only apply in Florida but the will is still part of the probate administration. Once the primary administration is established in the UK, ancillary proceedings can be commenced in any other country.

I'm just really trying to figure out if I need to apply for probate in the UK using a solicitor, but I guess I can just apply, answer questions about the existence of a will etc to the best of my ability and they'll tell me if a solicitor is needed. I just really want to avoid paying any fees when the estate is so small. I don't want to end up out of pocket!

Keep_pedalling

Do you have any idea the value of his US and Canadian assets?

Keep_pedalling

There is nothing preventing you from applying for letters of administration yourself. You will need to know the value of his non UK estate and you will need to send a copy of the US will. This will cost you £300 (unless the total assets are less than £5k, in which case it is free) in probate fees plus £16 for each copy of the grant of probate) but you can recover that from from the amount remaining in his UK bank account.

Even if you are having to do this, you will be still able to close his bank account before obtaining the grant.

poseidon1

OP you appear to be in an invidious position in that in my view you have no cost effective course of action because:

1. You father's assets are miniscule in the UK, and very modest in the USA.
2. He is still alive, but has no mental capacity to make a new will and revoke the old.
3. The primary beneficiaries of his estate are in the USA, but his current (valid) foreign US Will would need to be first probated in the UK on his death via a (complex) UK process that exists for this purpose due to him being UK domiciled when he eventually dies ( this is what I believe the American attorney is referring to).

You should note that there is a process in the UK where an unsuitable will for a person who has loss capacity can be replaced on their behalf by the person holding their LPA.

This is by virtue of an application to Court of Protection for a Statutory Will on your father's behalf, discussed in the article below -

https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/dispute-resolution-law-blog/making-a-will-following-a-diagnosis-of-dementia-and-avoiding-validity-challenges#:~:text=If%20someone%20suffering%20from%20dementia,and%20to%20avoid%20future%20disputes.

All that would be required here is for the USA will be revoked in its entirety and replaced by an English will covering his world assets but with the identical provisions and beneficiaries of the old.

The problem with this course of last resort, is cost. The cost to intiate this course of action by way of legal fees would completely wipe out UK cash, and you have no easy access to his foreign cash.

This is what I meant by no cost effective solutions. I do not see you being able to navigate a Statutory Will process without costly legal assistance.

Sadly your father has inadvertently created a complex cross border estate position without the significant asset base that would justify such an arrangement.