ii SIPP Portfolio X-ray - Management Fee?

jifmoose

I've recently transferred an old pension into a SIPP in ii, and have generally been having a good experience with setting it up, investing in a few mainstream funds, and the low fees.

Just one thing that puzzles me. The Portfolio X-ray feature is excellent for breaking down equity distribution etc. But in its "fees" section it lists separate "Management Fee" and "Ongoing Charge" for each fund:

The odd thing is sometimes these differ e.g. in the HSBC Global Strategy Balanced. The KIID and all the literature I can find on that one confirms the Ongoing Charge in 0.18%. Where do they get the 0.12% "Management Fee" in that case? Is it in addition to the Ongoing Charge? Is this some sort of separate ii charge (surely ii's fees are flat?) or is it a figment of Portfolio X-ray's imagination?

Or is it a weird way of expressing the "dealing charge"?

jifmoose

Ah OK I think https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/oeic.asp may answer my question:

As of 2021, investors paid an initial charge ranging from 0% to 5% … Investors also incurred an annual management charge (AMC) of about 1% to 1.5% of their share value. The AMC covers the fund manager's services.

Most funds quote a total expense ratio (TER) or an ongoing charges figure (OCF). Each charge includes the AMC and other expenses used for comparing different products. The TER and OCF do not include dealer charges

So the Ongoing Charge (OCF) includes the Management Charge (AMC) by the sounds of things? Odd that ii splits them out.

(then dealing/transaction charges are separate and a debatable proposition)

dunstonh

AMC is obsolete since MiFIDII. OCF (or TER with some assets) is the main measure. AMC still applies on non MIFIDII instruments (life funds and pension funds for example).

Transaction costs and Incidental costs are the other disclosures.

TC is currently undergoing an FCA consultation to fix the EU methodology

IC is nearly always nil.

jifmoose

Ah thanks, right that would explain why AMC usually isn't listed, if it's obsolescent or incorporated in the OCF/TER. I've been going off Ongoing charges so that's fine.

I'm not sure why this corner of the ii interface focuses on AMC - but I guess it doesn't matter!

EthicsGradient

Some other sites also list both an OCF and AMC, which are sometimes different, eg

HSBC Global Strategy Balanced Portfolio C Acc Fund factsheet | Trustnet

has

OCF:	0.18%
AMC:	0.13%

HSBC itself says

Ongoing charge figure (OCF)	0.190 %
Maximum initial fee	0.000 %
Maximum management fee	0.125 %

Global Strategy Balanced Portfolio

jifmoose

Ah curious! And interesting that it's slightly different from the figure ii has too (or maybe it's just rounding?)

LHW99

Or the date at which the AMC is calculated?

dunstonh

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81879420#Comment_81879420

It will be down to snapshot dates. Charges are updated more frequently nowadays. Especially transaction costs. However, some platforms update them less frequently than the published figures.