Economy 7 timing problem (EDF)

westofsouth

I have a 2024 Kaifa 'smart' meter. Up until recently the timing of the storage heater switching (ALCS) was well synchronised with the Economy 7 tariff period. However since a new E7 tariff on 14 Jan, the tariff change to night rate has been delayed by 30min. This of course means that for the first 30min the heavy storage heater load incurs the peak day rate. The extra cost per heater is in the region of £0.35 per night.
I have contacted EDF, they say a small discrepancy of a few minutes should be expected. However this is a consistent 30min, adding a significant sum to the monthly bill. EDF are so far unwilling to correct this. Is this type of overcharging by the supplier a common problem?

lohr500

There have been numerous posts in the past about the ALCS timing not being synchronised with the timing for switching between the peak and off-peak meter registers.

A small discrepancy between the two should not be expected.

I suspect whoever told you this at EDF is confusing the misalignment of the ALCS and register times, with the randomised offset of a few minutes that is built into the E7 system to prevent big spikes on the grid caused by all Eco7 meters in a given supply region switching to off-peak at the same time.

But even with the randomised offset (which once set, stays the same day after day), you should not be seeing a 30 minute difference in the timings.

What is a little strange is that my understanding is that the nominal peak / off-peak hours for E7 within a supply region are the same. So just changing from one E7 tariff to another E7 tariff shouldn't affect the timings.

It sounds to me as though EDF have pushed an incorrect configuration to your meter when the tariff changed.

I would contact EDF again and insist to be put through to their specialised meter team. They should understand the issue and can hopefully correct it. On the same call I would ask what the complaints process is to claim back for the incorrect billing from 14th Jan.

If you can't get put through to the specialist team and/or don't get a satisfactory result, request a deadlock letter so you can escalate with the ombudsman immediately, rather than having to wait 8 weeks under the standard Ombudsman process.

Scot_39

Suspect sadly your not the only one at edf with this problem - theres been other posts recently and over the last year. Search Rosie1001, pattymac33 etc experiences.

and again Edf person you spoke to I suspect doesnt fully understand how e7 alcs meters work - but will fob users off with that lack of understanding and so not pass users problems onto metering teams who might.

The supplier edf should always set two sets of times for a smart e7 alcs meter. The time of use tariff switching table times and for restricted feed alcs calander times that switch on in your case e7 a restricted feed for just 7 hrs.

The meters themselves can have an effective offset of upto 30m - generally sub 10m - in theory programmed ultimately at install time - but that offset applies to both times.

So if supplier sent both its tabled times as 0030 to 0730 and the meter offset parameters set a net 6 min offset , your tariff and your devices restricted feed would actually switch 0036 to 0736.

But there have been issues questioning whether the offset actually applies to some ihd displays of late when display data like tariff switching in a recent thread.

So are you using the ihd or using rhe meter display. Have you actually checked on meter itself what register is live / incrementing vs restricted live timings ?

I am not sure why changing from one genuine e7 tariff to another would change the times - is there any chance you weren't on their standard e7 times before or in fact not on their standard e7 tariff before (some legacy old rts they had replicated but no longer support)

As have seen edf get this wrong before - in one thread case even e7 tariff times to e10 programmed alcs timing meter - I suspect they might be in habit of only sending the one on tariff changes and not both - for at least some users - and they simply need to set both sets of timings so match again.

Here is a post as part of that e10 users exchange with EDF when timings wrong. Showing one such problematic understanding at EDF end and a proposed response.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81382782/#Comment_81382782

The right person at edf should be able to do that matched update within 24-48 hrs - the problem seems to be getting to them.

There's clearly been a change you've noticed.

So given youve already been given tge runaround - id send in a written complaint that you believe the two timings - TOU tariff switch tables and alcs calendar as above - have been out of sync since there update.

Asking for timings to be corrected so match and for compensation for the multiple 35p extras since.

[Ps do you have access to 30m data on edf portal or say bright app - showing kWh and cost ?

Its not perfect as won't allow for the (6m in above ex) meter preset - but it could help show the step load and out of sync pricing ]

Rosie1001 moved supllier in end (the Apr problem was not her only one over a few months with edf and her desired e10 tariff) the user in example edf sent e7 tariff times but left e10 alcs calander heater activation. So her heating was going potentially active 5 hrs a day at peak rate.

She in end when edf CS started to tell many users they weren't supporting e10 at end of June after a similar confusing mix of responses - moved to snug tariff designed for smets2 alcs meters with restricted feeds for nsh heaters etc at Octopus - and its 9p offpeak rate - edf e7 more like 15p night - and the day rate likely cheaper too - giving her back at least 1 hr boost mid afternoon (her old rts gave her 2 iirc) for her nsh.

squirrelpie

The meters themselves can have an effective offset of upto 30m - generally sub 10m - in theory programmed ultimately at install time - but that offset applies to both times.

FWIW, I believe the randomised offset is set during manufacture of the meter rather than at install time.

Ildhund

Nope. It's explained in SMETS how the RO is set. It's the multiple of a number between 0 and 1 'set during manufacture' and a number between 1 and 1799 set by the installing engineer. The result is the number of seconds the Tariff Switching Table times and the ALCS Calendar times are delayed by.

westofsouth

Thanks for your helpful replies.

Note the EDF Energy Hub histogram clearly shows the excess cost as the first 30min of storage heater use is charged at peak rate.

Swipe

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81870614#Comment_81870614

It might be useful to include a screenshot of that in your written complaint, highlighting that there should never be any cost discrepency between the ALCS and tariff times.