You can gift any amount, prove me wrong

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860390#Comment_81860390

What flat?

AIUI the OP, the elderly person had £250k liquid assets and that was the sum total of the estate.

If there is a flat owned by the elderly person, which can be sold to pay care fees or subject to a charge, that changes the whole dynamic of the thread.

SouthCoastBoy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860489#Comment_81860489

I thought there was one mentioned in the initial post?

"…£250k consists of a flat at £60k …."

strawb_shortcake

I'd also consider what the local authority does now may not be what the authority can do in the future.

A number of councils are in a financial trouble so perhaps they may become tougher on people who having willingly given away assets and not provide care at some point.

Would you really want to gamble on a comfortable life in your final years?

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860501#Comment_81860501

Hmmm, yes, well, there wasn't previously:

edited Today at 2:39PM

"

EDIT: 10% was a figure plucked, in reality I think it would be £10k. £250k consists of a flat at £60k and the remainder in cash. Family member is receiving a £14k pa pension (state+defined benefit from NHS employment).

"

So, if the individual gifts £190k of liquid assets but still has the flat, then the flat can be sold (or a charge against the flat) to meet the initial care home fees as a self-funder.

That may not be wise to gift all of the £190k as the individual really needs to retain sufficient liquid equity to meet their ongoing costs and any unexpected maintenance bills that might arise in relation to the flat while they continue living there - especially given the individual has low income.

A Council might still pursue DoA as £60k is only sufficient to fund a year or so in a care home.

It is also relevant whether this is the elderly individual acting with sound mind and of their own free will or an act by another exercising PoA.

diveunderthebonnet

There was a story on my computer a few months ago about a lady in Wales who sold her house to help her grandchild get on the property ladder ,a few years later she had a stroke and needed to go into care ,the story was about the local council trying to claw back the money that she gave away ,as deprovision of assets but the person,s legal team claimed that she could not plan the down turn in health so it was not fraud AND she ended up in local care home ,seemed wrong to me but.

eskbanker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860686#Comment_81860686

Nobody suggested that DoA is fraud, but you're presumably referring to this story (apologies for citing Gbeebies):

https://www.gbnews.com/news/council-wales-fury-care-fees

QrizB

That GBeebies article does list several local authorities that have gone after relatives of care home patients to recover money that they considered to be DoA.

Maybe this gives the OP the examples of this happening that they're seeking?

zagfles

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860686#Comment_81860686

Why is it wrong? It was her money and there was no indication she'd need care at the time. AgeUK say the same:

Deprivation of assets in social care

"Annex E of the guidance states it is unreasonable to decide you have disposed of an asset to reduce the level of care charges payable if, at the time of the disposal, you were fit and healthy and could not have foreseen a need for care and support."

zagfles

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81860938#Comment_81860938

Of course DoA happens and the LAs will go after it when it does, the question is whether disposal with the OP's caveat "while fit and independent" counts as DoA, the answer to which according to AgeUK is no.

Otherwise anyone spending or gifting anything could be regarded as DoA eg someone who goes on an expensive holiday then loses their job and needs to claim benefits. That wouldn't be DoA unless the job loss was known about when the spend occurred.

SouthCoastBoy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81861316#Comment_81861316

And I think that is necessary, as otherwise you, potentially,could never gift any money just in case.