Any Conveyancers/Solicitors on here?

NordicNoir

I just wondered what sorts of checks does a conveyancer carry out when they receive the title documents back from the Land Registry?

This is a copy of a title plan that the Land Registry sent to my solicitor when my new house was first registered with them. I am trying to gauge whether a conveyancer would be expected to know that the solid line at the bottom of the garden was from the Ordnance Survey map of an actual physical boundary, and that it was a bit odd and should query it? I now know that the dotted line within the red line at the bottom of the garden means that the Land Registry did not have a physical boundary to match it to.

Full story: The plan was an off plan new build, so no fences had been erected at the time of signing the TP1. The garden is sloping, so not easy to measure the garden after the fence was up without one of those surveying thingy’s. The thin triangle is within my fences but it is still owned by the management company. I have queried it with my solicitor but they are not responding and I wondered if it was because they had made a mistake? They also forgot to send it on to me until I requested it a year later (there are huge delays registering new builds at the Land Registry, so I did expect a long wait).

Thanks!

subjecttocontract

I'm my experience solicitors never visit the property they are dealing with so usually send the buyer a copy of the title plan and ask them to confirm that the plan shows what they are expecting to buy.

user1977

It's whoever put the fence up who's made the mistake, not the solicitors...not uncommon with newbuilds.

When you're doing the conveyancing for an off-plan plot, there isn't anything physical to compare the plan to (and certainly nothing that the Ordnance Survey have mapped yet), so you just need to trust that the developers will build everything where they are meant to.

NordicNoir

subjecttocontract said:

I'm my experience solicitors never visit the property they are dealing with so usually send the buyer a copy of the title plan and ask them to confirm that the plan shows what they are expecting to buy.

Thanks, I understand that, this is more of a question do they understand how Land Registry maps work and do they check that they make sense. The Land Registry try to fix the boundaries to actual physical boundaries that are on the Ordnance Survey map. They were not able to in this case, so put in a dotted line. I have only learnt this from my research, I just wondered if a conveyancer would be expected to know how to read a title map? The buyer cannot be expected to confirm that they have ‘seen’ fences that do not yet exist.

subjecttocontract

There is nothing to stop the buyer of a new property asking the developers to put up a boundary line ( to show where the fence will be erected) prior to completion. Personally I'd want the fence already in place before completion and I'd certainly want to know where my boundary was. I guess it wasnt that important for you. Sometimes the plans include dimensions which in my opinion is preferable but of course that's more difficult with a new development.

SarahB16

NordicNoir said:

I just wondered what sorts of checks does a conveyancer carry out when they receive the title documents back from the Land Registry?

This is a copy of a title plan that the Land Registry sent to my solicitor when my new house was first registered with them. I am trying to gauge whether a conveyancer would be expected to know that the solid line at the bottom of the garden was from the Ordnance Survey map of an actual physical boundary, and that it was a bit odd and should query it? I now know that the dotted line within the red line at the bottom of the garden means that the Land Registry did not have a physical boundary to match it to.

Full story: The plan was an off plan new build, so no fences had been erected at the time of signing the TP1. The garden is sloping, so not easy to measure the garden after the fence was up without one of those surveying thingy’s. The thin triangle is within my fences but it is still owned by the management company. I have queried it with my solicitor but they are not responding and I wondered if it was because they had made a mistake? They also forgot to send it on to me until I requested it a year later (there are huge delays registering new builds at the Land Registry, so I did expect a long wait).

Thanks!

I know you say you have only just seen this but out of interest what did the site plan show when you were interested in purchasing the house over a year ago.  What plans did you view then from the housing developer?

Personally I think it's an error and you own the triangular section but surely you must have seen something similar to the above when you were interested in purchasing the house?  How does it compare to the above?   

Could you contact the housing developer to check there is nothing under that triangular section that the site may need access to?  Personally it seems very strange and I think an error has been made with your red line boundary and you should own that triangular section too.  

eddddy

NordicNoir said:

The thin triangle is within my fences but it is still owned by the management company. 

You seem to be saying the developer put your fence in the wrong place - so you've got a bit of extra land enclosed with your garden.

- Is somebody telling you to move the fence?

- Or are you worried that somebody will tell you to move the fence at some point in the future (perhaps at your expense)?

If you're worried, I guess you could tell the developer they've made a mistake, and ask them to move the fence.



Or you could just enjoy using that bit of extra land as part of your garden.

If you look at whatever is on the other side of the fence, is it likely that somebody will notice and complain that your fence is in the wrong place?

NordicNoir

SarahB16 said

I know you say you have only just seen this but out of interest what did the site plan show when you were interested in purchasing the house over a year ago.  What plans did you view then from the housing developer?

Personally I think it's an error and you own the triangular section but surely you must have seen something similar to the above when you were interested in purchasing the house?  How does it compare to the above?   

Could you contact the housing developer to check there is nothing under that triangular section that the site may need access to?  Personally it seems very strange and I think an error has been made with your red line boundary and you should own that triangular section too.  

The site plan showed the shape of our plot exactly as the Land Registry have shown it. During the time that our registration was in the LR queue, the Ordnance Survey visited and measured the actual estate that was built. Then our plan was mapped onto the new Land Registry plan and the discrepancy was apparent. I did not know what it all meant at the time, but wondered if it was reasonable to expect a conveyancer to understand it and query it. I have contacted the developer and they know that they put the fence in a different place (because they had to change a neighbours garden) and just continued the fence line. They ‘thought’ that they had used an updated map but were wrong. 

NordicNoir

eddddy said:

NordicNoir said:

The thin triangle is within my fences but it is still owned by the management company. 

You seem to be saying the developer put your fence in the wrong place - so you've got a bit of extra land enclosed with your garden.

- Is somebody telling you to move the fence?

- Or are you worried that somebody will tell you to move the fence at some point in the future (perhaps at your expense)?

If you're worried, I guess you could tell the developer they've made a mistake, and ask them to move the fence.



Or you could just enjoy using that bit of extra land as part of your garden.

If you look at whatever is on the other side of the fence, is it likely that somebody will notice and complain that your fence is in the wrong place?

No one is asking for it to be moved, the developer included the wrong plan with the TP1. The triangle is now owned by the management company and we can keep it.

I am concerned that our deeds are wrong at the LR (we have the incorrect extent of land shown) and want it corrected to reflect the reality. The developer has refused to pay as it is now with the management company. I am concerned that it will be an issue when we come to sell and will need correcting at that point anyway. Hence, my query about what checks does the conveyancer make once they receive the title document back once it is registered.

I am just a bit fed up that we will need to pay hundreds of pounds to correct something that is not really our fault.

NordicNoir

subjecttocontract said:

There is nothing to stop the buyer of a new property asking the developers to put up a boundary line ( to show where the fence will be erected) prior to completion. Personally I'd want the fence already in place before completion and I'd certainly want to know where my boundary was. I guess it wasnt that important for you. Sometimes the plans include dimensions which in my opinion is preferable but of course that's more difficult with a new development.

It was in place at completion but not at exchange/signing of TP1. The garden is sloping and very big, short of getting a surveyor in, it would be impossible for an ordinary person to check it. The general shape/proportion looked as expected.

sheramber

Does the conveyancer check boundaries?

I have experienced yes and no.
 

When we purchased a cottage that had been built on defrosted land our solicitor advised us that he had spent an evening with a magnifying glass comparing the deeds and the ordinance survey map.

It transpired that when the decrofted land had been fenced off, the fence on two sides was in the wrong place. 

He advised both had to agree.

The decrofted land had to be an acre but  was less than that. 

Fortunately, the seller of the cottage still owned the two adjacent fields concerned and agreed for the fences to be moved out to correct position. 

When I bought my current house the solicitor sent me a copy of the deeds and asked me to confirm that they agreed with what I saw at the house, including two rights of way I had the use of.