Credit balance refund and billing mistakes

ElwoodBlues

Thanks for your replies. A few things here in response.
I'd rather not name the supplier or give meter readings, or anything identifying at this stage.

QrizB said:

Suppliers are obliged to use meter readings for billing, so if they've been ignoring yours there's definitely something wrong.

Can you share your meter reading history (the readings you've submitted) and the  estimates they've used for billing?

They've been disregarding my recent readings because they were lower than the last reading I gave them when I misread the meter (some time ago), and their system won't accept a reading that's lower than a previous one.

MWT said:

Hopefully not the case for you, but a few years ago some people took bad advice and submitted a false high meter reading so they would avoid the price increases and pay for their future use at the old price.

This causes subsequent accurate meter readings to be rejected as they are still below the previous false reading.

What the supplier should be doing is removing the original false reading and then re-billing at the correct prices for the actual use since then.

Do you still have those correct readings?

As far as I can tell, when the misread/over billing took place was around when gas prices were at their highest, so if anything it's benefitted the supplier as they've overcharged me at the highest possible price. When they recalculate it correctly I believe the credit may be even bigger. I've kept all my old bills so I can see historic usage and when real vs estimated readings were used.

gpman said:

BIB (my highlighting)

Energy suppliers are allowed upto 8 weeks to resolve your complaint.

It is unfortunate that despite you attempting to provide up-to-date meter readings on many occassions, these have all been rejected by the supplier (who presumably therefore carried on estimating your monthly usage). I do not understand why you did not challenge this earlier, if not on the first disputed reading, on the second or at leat the third sequential refusal, but that is history now. Especially since EDF (if that is the OP's supplier) issue nagging, monthly meter reading submission required reminders

You say you have recently provided your supplier with the 2 meter readings taken a week apart, together with photographic evidence thereof, as they requested. You do not say that they have objected in any way what you have provided them in this regard, so presumably they have accepted those 2 readings you have now provided them. Has your supplier explained why they have not used at least the latest of those readings to issue you with an up-to date bill/statement?

If you are indeed with EDF, they usually should issue a new statement whenever you provide them a new, up-to-date, accepted meter reading.

Regarding the £7k unexplained charges applied to your account, if I understand you correctly, you have seen this only on your online account. As somone above stated, this is probably the result of their billing system wrongly assuming your meter has 'gone round the clock', as opposed to reducing previously over-estimated readings. 

In a way, this is probably good news that progress is being made as your supplier has presumably now updated your meter reading with the meter reading(s) you have provided, albeit their software has assumed this is a 'round the clock' reading.

EDF nowadays use Kraken Technolgies software for account management, which was originally designed and developed by Octopus Energy. Hence why bills provided by both suppliers appear visually very similar.

You probably need to allow a little forbearance whilst your supplier finalises the full resolution of your complaint. But there would be no harm in dropping your supplier an email to explain what you have seen on your online account yesterday, and suggesting this is as a result of the wrong assumption your meter has 'gone round the clock'; hopefully your supplier would pick this up anyway as part of the manual intervention involved in your complaint resolution, but alerting them to this issue can only assist.

One of the advantages that Kraken Technologies software provides suppliers is that any email you send your supplier should automatically be routed directly to the customer service agent responsible for managing your account (I believe it's simply based on the email address you use to send your email from), and is automatically linked to all previous email correspondence you have sent/received. (excluding supplier system generated emails, such as meter reading reminders, billing, price changes, etc)

There was quite a big gap (about a year) between actual meter readings. I just never got round to it for ages, the bills/monthly dd seemed to be stable and I just presumed all was ok. Then when I did get round to submitting readings, I just assumed they'd been accepted and used by the supplier and billed correctly. But at this point the credit on my account wasn't going down by itself so I phoned them to request a refund (November). During the call they requested current meter readings which gave them over the phone, and it was at this point we discovered the issue with my gas readings. So they requested two more readings, with the photos.

I believe they accepted these readings (they didn't say they refused to anyway), and some changes occurred on the account section of the website - lots of reversed account charges appeared. No detail as to what they pertained to, but it looked like they've credit back the over billed gas back to the current, accurate meter reading. My account stayed looking like this for rest of November and all through December (showing a credit balance of about £1200). I chased them repeatedly to ask for this to be refunded to me, but they refused, saying there was still an issue with the billing. They said their system couldn't recalculate it automatically and it had been escalated to be done manually.

This is what they've been saying repeatedly since November. But now I've raised it as an actual complaint, their explanation is that it the people who do the billing manually rejected the meter readings back in November, shortly after I provided them. Now they've sent it back to be manually billed again.

I get what you're saying about their system assuming that the meter must've rolled over because the current reading is less than the previous. But it's only a bit less (in the scale of what the meter counts up to - 10,000 units). So that would calculate that I've used nearly 10,000 units, and at current prices that works out to about £20k not £7k. So the amount doesn't seem to correspond to them assuming the meter has rolled over. And given that my typical usage is about 100 units a year, it would take 100 years for the meter to go all the way round the clock!  

I have emailed the supplier to point out the current huge debit showing on my account and that it can't possibly be correct.

When does the 6 week complaint timeline actually commence, is it from when I raised the refund request or not until I actually used the word 'complaint' in my correspondence? It's now about 12 weeks since I first requested the credit balance refund, and whilst I chased several times, I only said 'complaint' recently. It seems I'm being penalised for being too patient with them, should have complained weeks ago.

gpman

I take on board your explanation of the total cost calculation of a 'round the clock' event. You appear to have an old, imperial gas meter fitted which is probably way out of its certification period. Let's hope your supplier does not bring this up as a further cause for delay

ElwoodBlues said:

When does the 6 week complaint timeline actually commence, is it from when I raised the refund request or not until I actually used the word 'complaint' in my correspondence? It's now about 12 weeks since I first requested the credit balance refund, and whilst I chased several times, I only said 'complaint' recently. It seems I'm being penalised for being too patient with them, should have complained weeks ago.

Just to clarify, the supplier is allowed up to 8 (eight) weeks to resolve your complaint.

I have found EDF complaint handling procedure generally quite lax in comparison to some other suppliers.

i.e. their first step of their complaint procedure is simply to contact their customer services

Some suppliers have a much more formal method to start a complaint, such as a special email address to use or on online form, etc. 

So you can sometimes use the approach of 'initially expressing an issue of dissatisfaction' as a basis on when a complaint is initially formed

But it works both ways, and the supplier may in their defence deem such contact as general communication or or a communication that was sent for information only. So it is always good practise to clearly head any intended complaint with COMPLAINT, to avoid any possible mis-interpretation.

EDF should provide you a complaint number when they have raised the matter as a complaint, and that too can be used as conclusive proof of a formal complaint being opened. But they don't always do so, so you could specifically request the complaint number, and then you know the complaint has been opened.

Without a complaint number, the ombudsman will look for other evidence from you that the supplier should have reasonably expected to have treated your contact as a cause for complaint.

I think in your case you cannot reasonably go all the way back to your first message on this matter, as the supplier could defend themselves saying they believed they addressed the issue raised of the accumulated credit then by offering to reduce your monthly payments, which you agreed to. They also explained to you that they could not provide a refund without an up-to-date meter reading.

I acknowledge the difficulties you say you experienced in submitting an accepted meter reading, but the fact is you let this carry on for months. 

However, you may have been able to take the contact in November as the start of the complaint. You requested a refund and the supplier explained they would first need 2 meter readings taken 1 week apart supported by photographic evidence which you then provided.

Unfortunately, I do think you may have scuppered this possible opportunity as you only recently have now requested the matter be escalated to a formal complaint. By implication that would imply you did not expect the supplier to consider the matter as a complaint earlier. 

The fact that EDF have indicated to you that they they have only started investigating this matter since last week suggests that is when EDF recorded this as a matter of complaint. But at least you now have a clear stake in the ground recording this as a complaint.

gpman

ElwoodBlues said:

...

This is what they've been saying repeatedly since November. But now I've raised it as an actual complaint, their explanation is that it the people who do the billing manually rejected the meter readings back in November, shortly after I provided them. Now they've sent it back to be manually billed again.

...

Sorry, I only just noticed this. I foresee a further cause for delay.
i.e. the supplier does not have a recent, accepted meter reading to allow a refund to be processed. The last readings provided are now 2-3 months old, and over the winter period when usage is typically high.

I suggest you get ahead of the game by taking a meter reading and corresponding photo today, and sending these to your supplier by email.

QrizB

ElwoodBlues said:

Thanks for your replies. A few things here in response.
I'd rather not name the supplier or give meter readings, or anything identifying at this stage.

I'll just note that you had a thread in 2023 where you named your supplier as EDF, so we're all going to assume you're still with EDF unless you tell us otherwise.

From your description of your energy use (100 units / 3000 kWh a year) and of your meter (only having four digits) it does seem that you have a legacy Imperial meter measuring in hundreds of cubic feet of gas. Is it digital, with rotating numbers, or is it one of those rotating-pointer ones a bit like this?

This type can be particularly difficult to read.

gpman

Oh, ... and add to your email that if they elect to reject this meter reading too, that the supplier should arrange an authorised meter reader to take a reading of their own.

That should spur the supplier into positive action, as they will not wish to incur the expense of appointing an authorised meter reader.

luci

Octopus has this in their FAQs. EDF may have similar

We'll send someone to collect a reading from your meters if you're unable to take your own meter readings, or you haven't given us one in several months. Even if you give regular reads - or have a smart meter - we may still send someone round occasionally to check everything's good.

ElwoodBlues

Yes, the meter is an old style imperial one. The gas board were working nearby about 18 months ago and they had to purge/check our supply when they finished. Their gas man took a meter reading (and a photo of my meter). If it did get passed on to the supplier they ignored that one too. He also commented that the meter was well overdue for replacement, but he couldn't do it there and then. He said he'd put it on the system for replacement. Hasn't happened yet though. The last time an actual meter reader took a reading from my gas meter was 2016, or it might be even longer ago.  

ElwoodBlues

Update on this. My supplier has notified me that it's now 8 weeks since I raised my complaint (it's 4 months since I first requested a refund of my credit balance), and that I'm entitled to escalate it to the ombudsman. They say they're still working on resolving it and are waiting for their billing team to check my account. They're asking for me not to go to ombudsman and to continue to let them 'look after' the matter. I don't have much faith in the supplier at this stage, but is it a good idea to escalate it to the ombudsman right away? Could that make things more complicated having a third party in the mix? Will it just add more delay, or is my supplier likely to pull their finger out now to avoid it getting referred to ombudsman?

Also, the usage/meter readings/credit balance on my online account has changed several times over the last few weeks. At one point the debit balance reduced down to about £3000, now it's increased back up to £7000 (I'm confident that I'm actually about £1000 to 1500 in credit in reality). There are no recent bills on my account that explain their calculations, and until last week no meter readings that did either. But out of nowhere a load of 'new' historical readings have been created (fabricated) and applied to my account.

They seem to have accepted my current readings as being correct (which are about 6000kwh lower than their estimated readings. So that should have created a credit on my account. But at the same time they've added some fabricated readings dated 2 years ago and 'rewound' my gas meter by 2000 units/60,000kwh! The meter read history on may account has an entry about 2 years stated 'change of supply' (there was no change of supply then, I've been with them for 5+ years, on their standard variable tariff the whole time). The meter reading at the change of supply is not one that I have ever provided them with, and it's a higher number than my meter is currently at, 2 years later.

Then a week after this 'change of supply' reading is a customer supplied reading that is 2000 units/60,000kwh lower than the reading they were using for the week before! Again, this is not a reading that I provided, I've never given a number anything like anywhere near then. By my records my meter went past this number some time in the year 2013! And then they've 'filled in the gaps' over the last two years, from this fabricated reading until today, with lots of estimated readings. I actually watched them stick these readings onto my account over the course of a few days - each time I logged into my account a few more estimates had appeared.

I have absolutely no idea why they've done this, but what it kind of looks like, is that they've decided I'm £7000 in debit and fabricated a load of historic meter readings to account for that. There is absolutely no way in the world that I've consumed 62,000kwh of gas over the last two years! Surely no one would think that could be correct for a modest 3 bed terrace?

I'm not even sure how these numbers add up, even with that, 62,000kwh is about £4000 by my reckoning? Yet the amount my account seems to be out by is more like double that. Not had a bill on the account in 5 months now, so can't see any hard calculations, just the meter readings and some amounts on my online account.

So now my account seems to be in such a mess that I'm not sure what my supplier is playing at, or if the ombudsman will have a chance of understanding and unravelling it? My fear now is that the ombudsman just sides with the supplier. Does the supplier actually have to explain/prove why they rewound my meter readings? Would love to see how they try and explain that (unless they're going to accuse me of tampering with it!)

ElwoodBlues

Would anyone be able to comment on my update above please? Should I give my supplier more time to resolve the matter (as they're now asking for), or escalate it to the ombudsman? It's 5 months since I requested a refund of my large credit balance.

QrizB

Unless you think your supplier is genuinely on the verge of sorting it out, I'd suggest that going to the Ombudsman is the best decision.