Building certificate

Chris1001

Hi. My daughter is in the process of buying a 3-bedroom house. It is Victorian and some 6 years ago the vendors converted the attic to a bedroom. Having spent money on a full buildings survey and solicitor fees etc., my daughter has suddenly learned that there is no buildings certificate for the conversion. The current owners just say that they didn't have time to do this originally and took great care when converting the attic and believe it conforms with regulations. I am very concerned about her going ahead with the purchase without insisting that vendors get the retrospect buildings certification.  She has been told by a friend and by mortgage broker that it's quite common so she thinks I'm being overly cautious. I would appreciate anyone's views. AI is very clear that it is crucial but I wonder if it too is over-cautious.

njkmr

I Think you can buy an insurance against this. Or make the seller's pay for it.
Indemnity insurance I think?

Albermarle

One big problem is that with no certificate, it should not even be described as a habitable room/ bedroom. So she is effectively buying a two bedroom house, and same when she comes to sell it.
Plus you really have to think why anyone would go to the very considerable cost of a proper loft conversion, and not get building control sign off .
It is a common problem, but that does not reduce the potential grief it can cause.

user1977

What does her surveyor say?

Chris1001

 user1977 said:

What does her surveyor say?

The surveyor advised her when he did the survey to check there was the necessary buildings certificate. He was very thorough and noted a few issues like no fire doors upstairs so possibly he was a bit suspicious. So I think he would say she shouldn't proceed without it. The problem is that a friend - an architect - has said it's quite a common problem which she interprets as therefore not very important. As her mum I'm much more cautious and think that essentially she would be buying a 2 bedroomed house, but for the price of a 3 bedroomed one.

Chris1001

Albermarle said:

One big problem is that with no certificate, it should not even be described as a habitable room/ bedroom. So she is effectively buying a two bedroom house, and same when she comes to sell it.
Plus you really have to think why anyone would go to the very considerable cost of a proper loft conversion, and not get building control sign off .
It is a common problem, but that does not reduce the potential grief it can cause.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, that's what I've told her. The problem is she loves the house. Also she has spent a lot of money so far in the purchase. 

Chris1001

njkmr said:

I Think you can buy an insurance against this. Or make the seller's pay for it.
Indemnity insurance I think?

I think the indemnity insurance is just insurance against the council taking enforcement action over past building work. I don't think it would insure against any safety issues, or help if she needed to sell the house and was faced with the same problem - ie not having buildings certification. 

Chris1001

On the same subject, I wonder whether the estate agent has any responsibility on this issue. The house was advertised as 3-bedroom and when asked they said that the house had the appropriate certification. It was the solicitor who discovered it hadn't got one. 

eddddy

Chris1001 said:

I am very concerned about her going ahead with the purchase without insisting that vendors get the retrospect buildings certification.  

It's very possible that the vendors didn't get building regs certification because it was uneconomic or impossible for the conversion to meet building regs requirement.

For example, there isn't enough head height in the loft; the stairs are too steep and there isn't enough room for shallower stairs; the layout of the house means it's not possible to provide a protected staircase / escape route; etc.

In which case, the vendors will not be able to get retrospective certification. 


Essentially, the house 'is what it is', and your daughter has to decide whether she wants to buy it or not.

Albermarle

Chris1001 said:

On the same subject, I wonder whether the estate agent has any responsibility on this issue. The house was advertised as 3-bedroom and when asked they said that the house had the appropriate certification. It was the solicitor who discovered it hadn't got one. 

There are regular threads on the subject of loft conversions without building control signoff, which inevitably tend to crop up during the buying and selling process. I think estate agents should not be advertising what is legally only a two bedroom property as a three bed. However some just do not comply, either deliberately or through ignorance.

It does not help when people muddy the waters by saying things like this.
The problem is that a friend - an architect - has said it's quite a common problem which she interprets as therefore not very important.
It is probably true that there a lot of extensions in general without the correct paperwork. I would be less bothered about a ground floor extension from 20 years ago, than in this case for example.

I think the indemnity insurance is just insurance against the council taking enforcement action over past building work. I don't think it would insure against any safety issues, or help if she needed to sell the house and was faced with the same problem - ie not having buildings certification

100% correct

maman

A more reputable estate agent should have either obtained a copy of the Building Certificate or advertised the house as a 2 bedroomed property with the benefit of extra space that could be used for storage or possibly a home office or other daytime use. 

I'd suggest she tries to find out if it's possible to convert the space to a bedroom and how much it would cost. Then if she's still interested I'd expect to pay a price comparable with other 2 bedroomed properties in the street.