Rental property with rats at start of tenancy

snowlucas

We moved into a very nice rental property. It's a farm with the landlord living in the main house and we are in a converted barn. The first night we moved in I heard scratching and chewing noises in  one part of the building and assumed mice. I've dealt with mice before but asked the landlord for advice and to update them. The landlord was of no use at all at this point.

Ongoing noises for the next few days. Including in various parts of the building including above the main bedroom. Was very disruptive and I again updated the landlord. We actually left for a week at this point. Once back I started laying traps as the landlord was not interested. I asked for advice on where I could put traps and he just said they have had mice before and I could try under the kitchen units as they had done that before.

I look under the units and find a previous trap with (not recently) dead rodent in it. I put down traps and try various other parts of the building. Over the next few days I trap 6 more. The noises don't stop. We then have a very bad smell develop in one room. The smell is so bad my son has to move out of that room. I update the landlord again a bit more forcefully saying I've never smelt a dead mouse before but I suspect that was the cause of the smell. I suggest he needs a professional. We also have some lights stop working at this point.

Throughout the landlord maintains he's had issues with mice but it had been occupied recently without issue. Lots of talk about being rural and the implication its not a big deal and part of life in the countryside. 

He removes some boxing in from one room we have heard plenty of noise. This exposes chewed and exposed electrical wiring and damaged flexible pipe leading outside. He then calls a professional. 

Pest guy comes. Immediately identifies the smell as likely dead rat. Finds evidence of rats. Sees one of the rodents I have killed and says it a dead juvenile rat. He is also a bit confused as the damage suggests a longer term issue. He states it's not a small issue and likely a colony of rats living in the house. Starts with poison and will come back weekly to review.

I ask the landlord to get an electrician to check the wiring is safe. The electrician visits and basically states they have known there was pest damage to that circuit from at least the summer (7 months) but the landlord didn't want to review it at the time (didn't want to open up the boxing in) so the electrician simply disconnected the circuit. I'm obviously very annoyed at this as the problem is clearly long term and well known to the landlord despite what he has been telling me.

We're now 5 weeks in. We had to leave the property for a week after a few nights of no sleep due to activity. I suggested to the landlord that I felt the property was not safe for me and my family and while it was being made safe we shouldn't be paying rent. He wasn't open to this at all. 

3 weeks of treatment and the noises continue. We're trying to remain optimistic but the rats clearly have access to all the voids in the house and are very embedded into the property. If we do manage to kill them all there is a good chance the property becomes impossible to live in due to smell.

Apologies for the long post. Really I'm looking for tenancy advice. From my understanding the landlord is legally required to solve the issue (hiring the pest guy probably covers this for now). I believe I have no right to withhold rent? Also I don't think I have any rights to end the contract due to these issues? We don't want to move out but these issues took a long time to build up and we can't see it being solved quickly.

sheramber

When we lived rurally we got  mice moving when it got colder. We got rid of them quickly 
using uktrasonic deterrents.

You can get them for rats. 

We used battery ones but you also get plug in ones. 

Unfortunately, no matter how many you kill there will be others to take their place. 

snowlucas

sheramber said:

When we lived rurally we got  mice moving when it got colder. We got rid of them quickly 
using uktrasonic deterrents.

You can get them for rats. 

We used battery ones but you also get plug in ones. 

Unfortunately, no matter how many you kill there will be others to take their place. 

I appreciate the reply and I'm aware mice will enter properties. This happens in the city, towns, rural. Anywhere really. 

Our current situation is an infestation of rats which is not part of rural life. I grew up on a farm. We had pests. Never in the house and I've never heard of anyone living with rats in their walls. I trust the pest guy and I think we've gone beyond ultrasonic deterrents. Sadly we seem to have moved into their house.

_Penny_Dreadful

snowlucas said:

We moved into a very nice rental property. It's a farm with the landlord living in the main house and we are in a converted barn. The first night we moved in I heard scratching and chewing noises in  one part of the building and assumed mice. I've dealt with mice before but asked the landlord for advice and to update them. The landlord was of no use at all at this point.

Ongoing noises for the next few days. Including in various parts of the building including above the main bedroom. Was very disruptive and I again updated the landlord. We actually left for a week at this point. Once back I started laying traps as the landlord was not interested. I asked for advice on where I could put traps and he just said they have had mice before and I could try under the kitchen units as they had done that before.

I look under the units and find a previous trap with (not recently) dead rodent in it. I put down traps and try various other parts of the building. Over the next few days I trap 6 more. The noises don't stop. We then have a very bad smell develop in one room. The smell is so bad my son has to move out of that room. I update the landlord again a bit more forcefully saying I've never smelt a dead mouse before but I suspect that was the cause of the smell. I suggest he needs a professional. We also have some lights stop working at this point.

Throughout the landlord maintains he's had issues with mice but it had been occupied recently without issue. Lots of talk about being rural and the implication its not a big deal and part of life in the countryside. 

He removes some boxing in from one room we have heard plenty of noise. This exposes chewed and exposed electrical wiring and damaged flexible pipe leading outside. He then calls a professional. 

Pest guy comes. Immediately identifies the smell as likely dead rat. Finds evidence of rats. Sees one of the rodents I have killed and says it a dead juvenile rat. He is also a bit confused as the damage suggests a longer term issue. He states it's not a small issue and likely a colony of rats living in the house. Starts with poison and will come back weekly to review.

I ask the landlord to get an electrician to check the wiring is safe. The electrician visits and basically states they have known there was pest damage to that circuit from at least the summer (7 months) but the landlord didn't want to review it at the time (didn't want to open up the boxing in) so the electrician simply disconnected the circuit. I'm obviously very annoyed at this as the problem is clearly long term and well known to the landlord despite what he has been telling me.

We're now 5 weeks in. We had to leave the property for a week after a few nights of no sleep due to activity. I suggested to the landlord that I felt the property was not safe for me and my family and while it was being made safe we shouldn't be paying rent. He wasn't open to this at all. 

3 weeks of treatment and the noises continue. We're trying to remain optimistic but the rats clearly have access to all the voids in the house and are very embedded into the property. If we do manage to kill them all there is a good chance the property becomes impossible to live in due to smell.

Apologies for the long post. Really I'm looking for tenancy advice. From my understanding the landlord is legally required to solve the issue (hiring the pest guy probably covers this for now). I believe I have no right to withhold rent? Also I don't think I have any rights to end the contract due to these issues? We don't want to move out but these issues took a long time to build up and we can't see it being solved quickly.

What you can do legally depends on what type of tenancy or licence you have, and which part of the UK you're in as all 4 countries each have their own housing law. 

Assuming you're in England you could have an AST but with your landlord living in a different building but on the same land I'm not 100% sure about that.  Is the accommodation tied to your job i.e. does one of you work on the farm?

Depending on which country you're in you can get housing advice from a housing charity such as Shelter (England), Shelter Scotland, Shelter Cymru or Housing Rights (Northern Ireland).

Jemma01

Really sorry, sounds like hell. I suggest you call Citizens Advice, I found them helpful many times in the past.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/

snowlucas

It’s a 12 month AST. It’s a private dwelling on the land (its own drive/council tax etc). In England. 

mta999

I am guessing that rats are a health hazard so you could try contacting your local council although of course this is likely to mean relations with your landlord deteriorate

sheramber

snowlucas said:

sheramber said:

When we lived rurally we got  mice moving when it got colder. We got rid of them quickly 
using uktrasonic deterrents.

You can get them for rats. 

We used battery ones but you also get plug in ones. 

Unfortunately, no matter how many you kill there will be others to take their place. 

I appreciate the reply and I'm aware mice will enter properties. This happens in the city, towns, rural. Anywhere really. 

Our current situation is an infestation of rats which is not part of rural life. I grew up on a farm. We had pests. Never in the house and I've never heard of anyone living with rats in their walls. I trust the pest guy and I think we've gone beyond ultrasonic deterrents. Sadly we seem to have moved into their house.

Rats are very much part of town life. Anywhere there is a ready supply of food will attract them.
 

Uneaten pizzas and take away food thrown away are easy pickings for them.
 

Bird food on the ground attracts them. 

Farm cats or jack russels normally take care of farm rats. 

mark_cycling00

I'm a country dweller. Read this post and checked the two mouse traps behind a panel in attic and found one mouse. Once a week event when the cat isn't out as much due to the rain or snow.

But that's mice not rats.

There are good pest control people who will visit and identify exactly where they are getting in. It's a real art.

You'll definitely need the owners permission to let them fill any holes etc. 

Rats need to be dealt with quickly so it's possible that you moved in after a period of time when they weren't being dealt with.

Our house was empty for a few months before we moved in. The rodent activity was scary in the first few weeks but with visit from a pest guy and done traps it died down to barely anything.

Rats smell and do more damage than mice. The fire risk from damaged cables is concerning. The owner should take this very seriously in your and their property.

In getting this sorted I'd try to be cooperative, don't be that stereotype city person who's horrified about country things. As people have said, it's a farm there will be mice and rats. 

You both need to do the correct steps to manage it but it can be done fairly easily.

Good luck

mark_cycling00

Also, the pest guy we had at the beginning did have to put some poison down and explained that it would smell for a few days and there would probably be a lot of flies. 

But after doing that and filling the hole we've never had a rat in over 5 years 

snowlucas

mark_cycling00 said:

Also, the pest guy we had at the beginning did have to put some poison down and explained that it would smell for a few days and there would probably be a lot of flies. 

But after doing that and filling the hole we've never had a rat in over 5 years 

The smell of a dead rat is quite something. Our dead rat smell took about 2 weeks to ease off to something you could ignore. We are also getting live rat smells but fortunately not in the bedrooms but more like the stairs so it’s manageable. 

The pro did find an entry point. It’s clearly months old (old rat droppings) and matches up with the electrics tripping in the summer. He’s created a one way valve as he would not recommend trapping them in. I really can’t stress enough that this is not a rat problem but an infestation. I’ve killed at least 7, one dead in the wall, one dead outside and we are aware of all least two more alive indicated by noise. The comparison to mice by the other poster is frustrating and I appreciate that you agree it’s is not the same. 

My questions were about the legal positions with the tenancy. We’re hopeful the issue will be resolved and I trust the pest pro. There is a point where this isn’t my property and putting my family through this level of disruption and potential danger (electrical fire) we might prefer to safely leave him to his mess. My understanding however is I have no particular legal right to withhold rent or end the tenancy based on what’s happened so far.