car insurance and write off values - interested to hear of experience with the FOS

waswwa

hi everyone -just wondering what others had experienced (I have been using chatgpt and have FOS FCA etc rulings they have sourced )

My car was hit by a falling tree - the owner's insurance denied liability claiming it was unforseen and my legal cover on the insurance took their word for it, ignoring all my evidence  - as it was too much trouble (minor issue but interesting to note how useless legal cover is they are engaged by your insurance co not you!)
anyway write off- and my car was old (2014 ) but in excellent condition and ULTRA (less than 34k) milegage - the insurance company have given 5 offers (4 different) but none sufficient to give me a reasonable chance of acquiring a similar low mileage car - the issues are (i) scarsity -my research suggests that 2014-2015 cars with that level of mileage are almost non-existant (like 90%+ of the time none-  and the few that are are anywhere in the country and sell within hours) so we need to look at newer cars (insurance co refused) (ii) IMHO the value needs to put me at a reasonable chance of buying locally (not in Londonderry/Kent/Newcastle, when I live in Worcestershire!)  low mileage car mkt is very volatile  and I am being punished for scarsity - ----****s final offer would at the time have only bought 73000 miles (I may just may get lucky and find someone like 1 car! which is comparable but it goes within hrs it's just luck!)  their only justification was 3 cars but with no links provided (though they admitted one had already been sold! and was a 5hr trip away from me to source!)- I complained to the FOS - stage 1 they basically ignored and forced me to escalate to official review - a/c chatgpt this is normal - and the second stage is where they actually investigate
is this right - (  next complaint to follow about the rebate on unused premium to follow!!!)

Investigator (Stage 1)	Ombudsman (Stage 2)
Informal view	Formal, reasoned decision
Throughput-driven	Accuracy-driven
Often defers to insurer	Actively tests insurer evidence
Accepts verbal summaries	Expects documentary proof
“Standard practice”	“What’s fair and reasonable?”

Myci85

No advice sorry, but I hope you get somewhere! I also found out how useless their valuations are when car written off. Someone rear ended me at fairly low speed, tiny crack on bumper, insurance company wrote off based purely on age (car 17 years old at that point). They offered me about half what I felt the value was, yes it was an older car, but excellent condition, a particular model that was higher spec and lower than average mileage for age. I countered their offer with 10 examples of similar cars for sale, all roughly £1k more than they offered, they countered with 1 example of a car that was not similar spec or mileage and refused to budge. In the end I kept the car and bought it back off them for scrap value, had my garage inspect it for safety, and left the small crack as a characterful blemish! 5 years later it is still going. But I've lost all faith that if I had another car written off I'd get anything close to what I needed to buy a like for like replacement. 

eskbanker

waswwa said:

- the insurance company have given 5 offers (4 different) but none sufficient to give me a reasonable chance of acquiring a similar low mileage car - the issues are (i) scarsity -my research suggests that 2014-2015 cars with that level of mileage are almost non-existant (like 90%+ of the time none-  and the few that are are anywhere in the country and sell within hours) so we need to look at newer cars (insurance co refused) (ii) IMHO the value needs to put me at a reasonable chance of buying locally (not in Londonderry/Kent/Newcastle, when I live in Worcestershire!)  low mileage car mkt is very volatile  and I am being punished for scarsity

I'm not convinced that the insurance company is obliged to calibrate its offer to reflect scarcity or location, just to reimburse market value, but FOS will ultimately adjudicate whether the company has acted fairly and reasonably - what exactly was the FOS adjudicator's finding?

MyRealNameToo

Less than 20% of cases at the FOS go from an Investigator to an Ombudsman. In most cases, but not all, the ombudsman agrees the investigators position.  So as usual Chat GPT is making up stuff and/or basing its answers on rubbish other people have previously put on forums.

They are required to pay you market value less your excess, its always worth checking if numbers are being quoted as including or excluding the excess payment as if the offer number is net then obviously you can't buy like for like because you need to add in the £500 of your own cash for excess or whatever your excess is.

Insurers use motor trade guides to value the vehicle, same as banks, buyers/sellers of cars etc. These days they are websites rather than books but you enter all the details in, inc mileage, and they advise what the value of the car is. The FOS generally expect insurers to check a couple of the guides and base the valuation on that. These firms gather vast numbers of sales figures every day and compile them. Clearly you won't get an identical match and identical mileage but having done this for decades they have built and refine models so they can project to fill in the gaps. 

Adverts are generally poor evidence, there is no control on what people list their vehicle for sale for, I could have listed my old knackered Saxo for £20,000 when in reality it was worth £3,000. Even if you think it's worth £3k you dont advertise it for £3k because people want a discount. In my Motor claims days our engineers would call advertisers posing as a prospective customer keen to buy for cash and always discounts were available. 

Unfortunately insurers obligations are to give you the market value of the car, not source such a car for you. The ombudsman will take a similar approach if they think, based on the same book prices, that you could would have only been able to sell the car for what the insurer has offered then they won't uphold the complaint. 

Woodstok2000

What was the car and the offer they made? I went throught his a fee years ago, FOS stage 2 were somewhat helpful and did force the offer up a bit but still not where I wanted it.

The FOS did highlight to me however that the insurance company don't need to consider anything related to me buying another vehicle. All they look at is the value of your car. The fact none are available locally or with similar mileages has no bearing on the value, so they wont account for that in their offer.

Get as much evidence as you can (adverts, trade prices etc) to back up your case - thats the only thing that makes a difference in my experience.

Jumblebumble

waswwa said:

hi everyone -just wondering what others had experienced (I have been using chatgpt and have FOS FCA etc rulings they have sourced )

My car was hit by a falling tree - the owner's insurance denied liability claiming it was unforseen and my legal cover on the insurance took their word for it, ignoring all my evidence  - as it was too much trouble (minor issue but interesting to note how useless legal cover is they are engaged by your insurance co not you!)
anyway write off- and my car was old (2014 ) but in excellent condition and ULTRA (less than 34k) milegage - the insurance company have given 5 offers (4 different) but none sufficient to give me a reasonable chance of acquiring a similar low mileage car - the issues are (i) scarsity -my research suggests that 2014-2015 cars with that level of mileage are almost non-existant (like 90%+ of the time none-  and the few that are are anywhere in the country and sell within hours) so we need to look at newer cars (insurance co refused) (ii) IMHO the value needs to put me at a reasonable chance of buying locally (not in Londonderry/Kent/Newcastle, when I live in Worcestershire!)  low mileage car mkt is very volatile  and I am being punished for scarsity - ----****s final offer would at the time have only bought 73000 miles (I may just may get lucky and find someone like 1 car! which is comparable but it goes within hrs it's just luck!)  their only justification was 3 cars but with no links provided (though they admitted one had already been sold! and was a 5hr trip away from me to source!)- I complained to the FOS - stage 1 they basically ignored and forced me to escalate to official review - a/c chatgpt this is normal - and the second stage is where they actually investigate
is this right - (  next complaint to follow about the rebate on unused premium to follow!!!)

Investigator (Stage 1)	Ombudsman (Stage 2)
Informal view	Formal, reasoned decision
Throughput-driven	Accuracy-driven
Often defers to insurer	Actively tests insurer evidence
Accepts verbal summaries	Expects documentary proof
“Standard practice”	“What’s fair and reasonable?”

Do have a look at the pistonheads  forum thread   Seriously Overpriced cars

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1469767
to see why insurance companies may not be interested in advertised prices

born_again

In realty the price advertised means nothing. What you really need to know is the price they are sold for.

TELLIT01

Motor insurance should be based on the replacement cost of a similar vehicle, not the trade in value.

MyRealNameToo

TELLIT01 said:

Motor insurance should be based on the replacement cost of a similar vehicle, not the trade in value.

Yes, but it doesnt have to consider either availability or location of ones currently for sale. If your car was worth £10k (£7k trade in) then they should pay you £10k less the excess. If you can't find the identical car for sale today unfortunately isnt their problem nor if there is one for sale but it's a 6 hour drive away. 

TELLIT01

I never said anything about location, or suggest that the insurer should have to source the vehicle.  Nor did I say it should be identical in all aspects.  Same make and model, although different spec would certainly give a fairer guide to replacement cost than the trade in value.

sheramber

TELLIT01 said:

I never said anything about location, or suggest that the insurer should have to source the vehicle.  Nor did I say it should be identical in all aspects.  Same make and model, although different spec would certainly give a fairer guide to replacement cost than the trade in value.

As far as I know they do give market value. That is not necessarily what a seller will ask for a car.

Our insurance certainly gave us market value for our write off.