Santander Takeover

huw01

MyRealNameToo said:

eskbanker said:

Theleak250 said:

I understand from the news reports that the TSB brand will disappear. Your accounts will be transferred to Santander but not for a while yet. Very long time away.

https://tbuonline.co.uk/tsb-brand-to-disappear/

Santander has now made it clear that the TSB brand will disappear. Dame Ana Botin, the Executive Chairman of Banco Santander, said it: “intends to integrate TSB in the Santander UK group.”.

Integration can take many forms, so in itself that quote from Santander's chair doesn't signify the brand disappearing, even though that's the union's interpretation.  For example, RBS integrated NatWest into its group following acquisition over 25 years ago but the separate brands remain to this day, despite sharing plenty behind the scenes.

There are certainly degrees of integration but also branding is a totally different matter to integration. 

In a prior merger I dealt with they decided to instantly adopt a new brand across the two former separate companies. This was long before any form of integration occurred but that did create a slight problem that the "contact us" page had to say if you were an ex customer of X call this number and if you are an ex-customer of Y call this number as there was no link behind the scenes. It kind of worked for them though as their customers are in the hundreds and each will have named members of staff they deal with and arent a consumer bank with millions of customers. 

As you say on the flip side you can retain your two brands and yet behind the scenes everything is identical. Have done that too in my call centre days, your headset tells you which brand they are calling and you answer the phone with the appropriate salutation. In my first job though it occasionally fell apart as we owned our own courier service but it was branded differently and we would "blame them" if something goes wrong (official policy). Most of us dealt with mail order or courier but a good number did both. Know more than once someone said it was the couriers fault and they need to call them for the caller to hang up, call back and get the same agent (leading to a uncomfortable conversation)

Both are separate brands within their own geographical areas, no Natwest branches now remain in Scotland and no RBS branches in England and Wales. Getting rid of the RBS brand, even though toxic at one point in time would have been problematic as they issue bank notes in their own name in Scotland. It carries national brand identity, whereas TSB doesn't

wmb194

huw01 said:

wmb194 said:

huw01 said:

I think the tsb brand will go, Sanander have previously retired the Abbey National, Bradford & Bingley and Alliance & Leicester brands. They have also done the same in Portugal with the Totta Brand and rebranded Banco Popular in Spain.They tend to keep one global brand

A global brand is one thing but it still uses the Cahoot (savings) and Cater Allen (private bank and trusts) brands in the UK and continues to reenergise Cahoot by offering market leading rates.

https://www.cahoot.com/

https://www.caterallen.co.uk/

Correct but they are both not high street brands, they don't have a presence on the high street. I cannot see there will be TSB branches and Santander branches on the high street. It removed the duplication of both the B&B and A&L branches, rebranded their customers branches and accounts as Santander. There will be some locations where current Santander customers find themselves with a new branch in their local town they never had before.

TSB is a high street bank, visable (although less than it used to be) as a brand in the UK. Although a historic bank, its current made up is of customers from the old Lloyds Bank, Cheltenham and Gloucester and TSB and due to it's constant sale and re-sale it's gone through a few transformations and dare I say it's not much of a loved or distinctive brand. I can't see it surviving

Okay, but that isn't what you wrote ("I think the tsb brand will go"). TSB could disappear from the High Street but remain as a niche brand for e.g., credit cards or mortgages. Woolwich disappeared from the High Street when Barclays bought it but continued as a mortgage brand for a long time.

TSB's a very weak brand though so if it were me I wouldn't keep it but Santander does have a multi-brand strategy so you never know. It could rebrand Cahoot TSB. Which is stronger?

SebH

TSB already have the Whistletree brand for some mortgages sold via brokers and intermediaries in addition to their own brand.

Santander do seem to have historically been keen on consolidating subsidiaries into the primary global brand, unless there is a reason to keep a specialist brand around. Cahoot was dormant and revived as a savings brand, only because they wanted to offer good rates under the radar rather than to mass-market Santander customers. Even then it is only a trading name of Santander and runs on a copy of Santander’s technology systems (no different banking licence or legal identity).

Cater Allen has retained a standalone identity but relies on Santander significantly for back-office functions. It seems that is partly due to offering specialist banking services and possibly partly because Santander may want to retain the flexibility to sell the business at a future date.

I think it is very likely that TSB will simply be absorbed into Santander as Bradford & Bingley, Alliance & Leicester and Abbey National were in the past.

SebH

huw01 said:

MyRealNameToo said:

eskbanker said:

Theleak250 said:

I understand from the news reports that the TSB brand will disappear. Your accounts will be transferred to Santander but not for a while yet. Very long time away.

https://tbuonline.co.uk/tsb-brand-to-disappear/

Santander has now made it clear that the TSB brand will disappear. Dame Ana Botin, the Executive Chairman of Banco Santander, said it: “intends to integrate TSB in the Santander UK group.”.

Integration can take many forms, so in itself that quote from Santander's chair doesn't signify the brand disappearing, even though that's the union's interpretation.  For example, RBS integrated NatWest into its group following acquisition over 25 years ago but the separate brands remain to this day, despite sharing plenty behind the scenes.

There are certainly degrees of integration but also branding is a totally different matter to integration. 

In a prior merger I dealt with they decided to instantly adopt a new brand across the two former separate companies. This was long before any form of integration occurred but that did create a slight problem that the "contact us" page had to say if you were an ex customer of X call this number and if you are an ex-customer of Y call this number as there was no link behind the scenes. It kind of worked for them though as their customers are in the hundreds and each will have named members of staff they deal with and arent a consumer bank with millions of customers. 

As you say on the flip side you can retain your two brands and yet behind the scenes everything is identical. Have done that too in my call centre days, your headset tells you which brand they are calling and you answer the phone with the appropriate salutation. In my first job though it occasionally fell apart as we owned our own courier service but it was branded differently and we would "blame them" if something goes wrong (official policy). Most of us dealt with mail order or courier but a good number did both. Know more than once someone said it was the couriers fault and they need to call them for the caller to hang up, call back and get the same agent (leading to a uncomfortable conversation)

Both are separate brands within their own geographical areas, no Natwest branches now remain in Scotland and no RBS branches in England and Wales. Getting rid of the RBS brand, even though toxic at one point in time would have been problematic as they issue bank notes in their own name in Scotland. It carries national brand identity, whereas TSB doesn't

Not quite true!

Northern Ireland only has Ulster Bank branches.
Scotland only has Royal Bank of Scotland branches.
Wales only has NatWest branches.

England has NatWest as a primary brand and almost exclusively NatWest branches but there are actually two RBS branches still around - Berwick upon Tweed, treated as an honoury Scottish location, and Drummonds in London (but the RBS brand is not emphasised at that location as it is the home of another historic brand in it’s own right). Holt’s Military Banking continues to exist, provided as effectively a specialist form of RBS.

As for banknotes, there are ways to resolve issues there. Banks can simply decide to stop issuing the notes (as AIB did in NI) or they can transfer the note-issuing permission as NatWest Group did (from Ulster Bank Ltd to National Westminster Bank plc) and brand them how they like.

wmb194

SebH said:

TSB already have the Whistletree brand for some mortgages sold via brokers and intermediaries in addition to their own brand.

Santander do seem to have historically been keen on consolidating subsidiaries into the primary global brand, unless there is a reason to keep a specialist brand around. Cahoot was dormant and revived as a savings brand, only because they wanted to offer good rates under the radar rather than to mass-market Santander customers. Even then it is only a trading name of Santander and runs on a copy of Santander’s technology systems (no different banking licence or legal identity).

Cater Allen has retained a standalone identity but relies on Santander significantly for back-office functions. It seems that is partly due to offering specialist banking services and possibly partly because Santander may want to retain the flexibility to sell the business at a future date.

I think it is very likely that TSB will simply be absorbed into Santander as Bradford & Bingley, Alliance & Leicester and Abbey National were in the past.

Yes, TSB's weak so why would you? It makes sense to use the same back office for everything but the point is that Santander UK has a multibrand strategy. I don't think Cahoot was ever completely dormant because it never closed its Cahoot current accounts down (there's even a recent thread about them).

SebH

It was not dormant in the same sense as a “dormant” company, doing no business at all, but it was a “dormant brand” in my view as it was closed to new customers completely for a time.

eskbanker

MyRealNameToo said:

eskbanker said:

Theleak250 said:

I understand from the news reports that the TSB brand will disappear. Your accounts will be transferred to Santander but not for a while yet. Very long time away.

https://tbuonline.co.uk/tsb-brand-to-disappear/

Santander has now made it clear that the TSB brand will disappear. Dame Ana Botin, the Executive Chairman of Banco Santander, said it: “intends to integrate TSB in the Santander UK group.”.

Integration can take many forms, so in itself that quote from Santander's chair doesn't signify the brand disappearing, even though that's the union's interpretation.  For example, RBS integrated NatWest into its group following acquisition over 25 years ago but the separate brands remain to this day, despite sharing plenty behind the scenes.

There are certainly degrees of integration but also branding is a totally different matter to integration. 

Yes, that was very much my point, i.e. a quote about integration said nothing about (the separate matter of) brands.

Theleak250

I had seen a theory posted elsewhere that Santander would actually rebrand as TSB in the UK. One can only imagine why they might do
that, I think it unlikely, unless they plan to sell, but all signals are the opposite.

boingy

TSB as a brand has been tainted since it was reincarnated in the aftermath of the govt stepping in to rescue Lloyds (or Lloyds TSB). Can't imagine anyone will shed tears if the brand disappears.

WillPS

Santander could fold TSB entirely in to their high street brand

Santander UK could rebrand itself as TSB and merge the two entities together Virgin Money style (would make sense if they still want to sell off their UK business)

Santander could keep TSB limping along in some fashion, as a Cahoot/Cater Allen style brand

Only they will know what the plan really is, the only safe bet is that branch network rationalisation will definitely be part of the plan.