Parcel from Europe Auction Company Damaged , claim rights

20up

Hi there.
This is quite complicated , so apologies in advance
I won an antique from a European auction company (France). The auction company asked me to sign this disclaimer (translated).   

"<Company> undertakes to proceed with reinforced and professional packaging of any purchase made within the auction house. It also undertakes to ship, with a tracking number, any package via postal services.

Therefore, I declare to release <company> from all responsibility in case of loss, breakage, theft, or any other damage caused during the shipping of the package"

The item arrives damaged / broken, so when I contacted them they said I signed the disclaimer and directed me to contact the national post . When contacted the French post they said as I am overseas I need to speak to the sender. When I went back to the sender with that information they then  (U turned?) and said we will handle the claim for you,  and contact you for more information.

Prior to this I also contacted parcelforce and they came back 2 days ago and admitted liability saying the parcel got stuck in their high speed machinery and to get the sender to lodge a claim.

I have then gone back to the auction house (skipping!) with this information and chase the status of the claim, and I appear to be getting radio silence. So unless I am very impatient and just need to wait,  or they may have changed their mind (again) and not submitted the claim and blown me out.

So, if this is the case and that I have to somehow submit a claim ,  are there any suggestions on a way forward please
Thanks !

MyRealNameToo

Who bought the shipping? Did you book it yourself or did the auction house sort it for you. It's the person that entered into the contract with the courier that needs to log the claim, in most cases that is the sender but not in every case.

Given the seller is in France then French law almost certainly applies and you may be better off asking someone with knowledge of consumer rights there than here. Here there are various exceptions for Auctions in many circumstances -v- a normal online order. 

20up

Thanks - Auction house booked the shipping with french post. I mean I do speak a little French and may try calling the french post help number. But if anything like parcelforce ..... wish me luck

20up

Also another thought. The fact that I have a written email date and timestamp agreeing to help me invalidate this statement?   . Basically what it says to me is they have forgone this discharge by agreeing to contact the courier ?  The email is dated post the signed agreement below.

"<Company> undertakes to proceed with reinforced and professional packaging of any purchase made within the auction house. It also undertakes to ship, with a tracking number, any package via postal services.

Therefore, I declare to release <company> from all responsibility in case of loss, breakage, theft, or any other damage caused during the shipping of the package"

MyRealNameToo

20up said:

Also another thought. The fact that I have a written email date and timestamp, company emails after this waiver form agreeing to help (take responsibility), does this not invalidate it? 

"<Company> undertakes to proceed with reinforced and professional packaging of any purchase made within the auction house. It also undertakes to ship, with a tracking number, any package via postal services.

Therefore, I declare to release <company> from all responsibility in case of loss, breakage, theft, or any other damage caused during the shipping of the package"

This is why you need someone who understands French consumer protection law... in the UK there are several rights you cannot waive even if you want to, there are some you can waive and for other things you have no rights. 

There are plenty that write terms against the CRA terms and you "sign it" when you click to say you agree but you can still force a full refund if it doesnt work despite them saying its "sold as seen" so unreturnable. 

Some UK law comes from the EU but it's not close enough to say that if its X in the UK it must also be X in France. 

20up

Understand thanks. It makes sense now on the radio silence , basically realised what they'd done and hope I would just go away. They got me mixed up with someone else as I am not going lightly.

So say this a good place to start European e-Justice Portal - Small claims forms ?

se2020

20up said:

Also another thought. The fact that I have a written email date and timestamp agreeing to help me invalidate this statement?   . Basically what it says to me is they have forgone this discharge by agreeing to contact the courier ?

"<Company> undertakes to proceed with reinforced and professional packaging of any purchase made within the auction house. It also undertakes to ship, with a tracking number, any package via postal services.

Therefore, I declare to release <company> from all responsibility in case of loss, breakage, theft, or any other damage caused during the shipping of the package"

Was the packaging suitable for the item?

It sounds like it was. Especially as parcelforce have admitted it got stuck in a high speed machine.

So, effectively,  the auction house have forfilled their part of the contract and you have previously agreed that they are not responsible for any damage in shipping.

Either way, you'll have a very hard time dealing with this in a French court so I'd suggest you just be as nice as you can to the auction house and hope they will handle the claim for you (and them refund you)

If parcelforce damaged it I expect that happened after the French Post had passed it over to them.
You may well be able to get an email from the auction house authorising you to acet as an agent for them in dealing with this claim although I would certainly expect them to stop helping you once they had done that.

A better option might just be to contact the auction house (in french) and ask nicely.  Just say the shippers won't deal with you as you didn't send it and ask them if they would be so kind to submit a claim form and refund you.
The sit back and wait for the claim to be paid out.

I've no idea what the French Post office is like at dealing with claims but if they are anything like royal mail I wouldn't get your hopes up.

20up

Thanks good advice - Yes it was packed good, had fragile on it and insured. The box was caved in the middle , which is where the item was damaged (snapped).

I have not pulled the pin yet with the auction house, hence not sent any stty emails, however  I am conscious of days to make a claim, and them running the clock down by silence hence why I have come on here.

se2020

20up said:

Understand thanks. It makes sense now on the radio silence , basically realised what they'd done and hope I would just go away. They got me mixed up with someone else as I am not going lightly.

So say this a good place to start European e-Justice Portal - Small claims forms ?

That's ok if you live in Europe but you moved out in 2020

RFW

20up said:

Understand thanks. It makes sense now on the radio silence , basically realised what they'd done and hope I would just go away. They got me mixed up with someone else as I am not going lightly.

So say this a good place to start European e-Justice Portal - Small claims forms ?

As someone above says you'll be better trying to appeal to the auction house and hoping they'll sort it out. They have a contract with the courier and it would be them who would get a refund that they can then give to you.

Also try contacting your local Trading Standards they may have some knowledge of how to proceed and may have some connections in the EU that could help. 

20up

Hi, just an update on this as progress was made. Very slow , but appealing to the auction house in french I managed to get somewhere. They lodged a claim with the French post, who took an age to respond, but they asked for pictures, which I gave including the email from parcelforce admitting liablity.
The latest (as of 7 days ago) was that the French postal service have confirmed that Parcelforce acknowledge the damage and in in the process of the claims team.

I had (still have) pretty much written off the money a long time a go, but won't get the banners out until I get something.

Thanks to good advice from this thread - thanks