Where is the boundary line, on a side access here? Can the fence be moved to make a wider garden?

theonenonly

The purple line demonstrates where the current fencing is. The black line demonstrates the neighbours fence. 

I was wondering (i) if the fencing can be moved to where the red line is, and (ii) should we wish, knock down our garage in the future.

Moving the fencing out would mean a wider garden, (not as wide as it would be if we were to demolish the garage, however).

I also use the terms "I', and "mine" loosely, as it's just a property I've viewed, where the vendor wasn't present, and the estate agent couldn't answer the question I was asking.

user1977

Probably, but nobody can answer properly without seeing the titles.

Sam_666

1. Estate agent or vendor is not qualified to comment on land border. Anything they would have said is just sales pitch.
2. Check land registry for true land borders.
3. You could demolish garage and only leave garage wall facing neighbourgh. Front of ex-garage could be covered with timber fence.
4. Moving fance to your "red" line, you would be giving away nice chunk of your land.

Section62

Sam_666 said:

...
4. Moving fance to your "red" line, you would be giving away nice chunk of your land.

Moving a fence doesn't mean land is given away.  If the vendor owns the land now then the OP would still own it if the fence was moved to the red line.

grumpy_codger

For approximate boundaries see e.g.

https://www.planning.data.gov.uk/dataset/title-boundary

https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

theonenonly

OK, so it turns out the council have an interactive map which shows the boundary map, for planning permissions etc.

The purple line shows the boundary line, making for an awkward garden shape.

user1977

theonenonly said:

OK, so it turns out the council have an interactive map which shows the boundary map, for planning permissions etc.

I would expect that just to be mapping based on the Ordnance Survey map, showing the physical boundaries. They're not going to know/care what the title boundaries are.

I mean, it's possible the neighbour owns that chunk, but it would be a bit odd - surely the fence is just there so that there's access into the garage? The most likely scenario is that the title boundary is along the centre line of the shared driveway (with each house having the right of access over the other half of the driveway).

WIAWSNB

So 'you' don't own that access drive, but the neighbour presumably does. But I'm guessing you have a RoW over it to access your garage.
Even if you owned that driveway, you'd need to check the content of your deeds in case moving your boundary to the straight red position would make your neighbours parking task more tricky - they'd have to reverse the full distance instead of - presumably - being able to turn (with a smaller car at least) in front of your garage. The deeds map should show what area has this 'shared' access right.
That's all presumption, of course - the deeds, both copies, should make this clear.
However, there should be no reason you cannot demolish your garage, and this would give you a slightly odd-shaped, but nonetheless much wider garden.

bobster2

Need to check the title plan - but sometimes with this situation the boundary is right down the middle of the drive - with covenants obliging each owner to allow access at all times along the drive to the garages at the back. So nobody can build a fence blocking this access.

The area where you have to provide access and cannot build would be shaded on the title plan.

The council map may not be accurate when it comes to ownership.

Section62

theonenonly said:

OK, so it turns out the council have an interactive map which shows the boundary map, for planning permissions etc.

I'd be sceptical the council has and uses an up to date and accurate copy of the Land Registry information.  If the interactive map is associated with planning consents then it may be derived from the red-line boundaries that applicants themselves have used in planning applications.  The red-line in that case indicates the area of land affected by the application, not the legal boundary of the land.  In a case like yours the applicant would be well advised to draw the red-line as per the purple line in the image - in order to clearly show the application won't be affecting the shared access and the rights (if any) of the neighbour.

Over time the planning application layer of council GIS systems is beginning to look very similar to mapping of property titles, but they aren't the same thing.

Part of the reason for my scepticism is that planning authorities are generally uninterested in title boundaries - because planning applications don't necessarily affect the whole area of a title, and very commonly one application could affect parts of multiple titles (you don't have to own land to submit a planning application for it, and one person (or company) can own multiple adjacent titles forming one 'plot' of ownership on the ground.

I agree with user1977 - the more likely scenario is the boundary runs down the centre of the accessway and each of you has the right to pass over the other person's half.  But you need to check the title for the land (ideally both properties) to confirm this.  As the neighbour appears to still use the rear garden for parking they are likely (if they are sensible) to object to you fencing off any part of the land they have a right of way over, even if you think they don't need to drive over it to get to their parking area.

vic_sf49

As next door has a car in their back garden, is the black line / fence movable, or actually a gate, or how do they get access? 

That suggests that the access is shared, or one of you has rights to cross the other's land, so you won't be able to do anything that encroaches onto it.  

Download the title(s) from the land registry website @ £7 per title, then you'll have a better idea. 

Don't pay more, from a copycat website.