John Lewis Mattress Warranty Weaselling

UnHappyMattressMan

Hi all,

I’m hoping for some advice on a John Lewis mattress guarantee dispute that doesn’t feel right.

On 27 June 2023 I bought a John Lewis Waitrose Wool No. 3 pocket spring mattress (king size). It’s a decent model – 2,000 pocket springs, 2.1kg of British wool, 32cm deep – sold with a 7-year guarantee. Normal price was £719, but I paid £539 using a partner discount. It was bought on John Lewis-arranged interest-free finance.

After about 30 months, a spring has failed internally and is pushing through the mattress – I can physically feel the metal through the surface. John Lewis have accepted it is faulty (independent inspector confirmed manufacturing fault), but say the model is discontinued.

The problem is what they’re offering instead. They will only give me replacement credit based on what I paid (£539 / £719), which forces me into a much lower-spec mattress in their current range (fewer springs, less wool, thinner and a firmer feel). They say they can’t supply the nearest equivalent because I used a partner discount and they “can’t give goodwill or upgrades” to partners.

I’m not asking for an upgrade – I just want the current equivalent of what I originally bought. To me, being pushed from a 2,000-spring wool mattress into a 1,600-spring thinner one is clearly a downgrade, even though the prices now happen to line up.

Is this actually allowed? My understanding is that under the Consumer Rights Act and their 7-year guarantee, a faulty product should be replaced with something of equivalent quality, and that discounts shouldn’t affect that.

I also purchased it through credit, which I believe might give me an even stronger defense.

Any advice on how to push this, or whether John Lewis are in the wrong here, would be hugely appreciated. I know they had a lawsuit against them for a similar issue, and I have asked for the complete transcripts.

Thanks in advance.

MyRealNameToo

UnHappyMattressMan said:

Hi all,

I’m hoping for some advice on a John Lewis mattress guarantee dispute that doesn’t feel right.

On 27 June 2023 I bought a John Lewis Waitrose Wool No. 3 pocket spring mattress (king size). It’s a decent model – 2,000 pocket springs, 2.1kg of British wool, 32cm deep – sold with a 7-year guarantee. Normal price was £719, but I paid £539 using a partner discount. It was bought on John Lewis-arranged interest-free finance.

After about 30 months, a spring has failed internally and is pushing through the mattress – I can physically feel the metal through the surface. John Lewis have accepted it is faulty (independent inspector confirmed manufacturing fault), but say the model is discontinued.

The problem is what they’re offering instead. They will only give me replacement credit based on what I paid (£539 / £719), which forces me into a much lower-spec mattress in their current range (fewer springs, less wool, thinner and a firmer feel). They say they can’t supply the nearest equivalent because I used a partner discount and they “can’t give goodwill or upgrades” to partners.

I’m not asking for an upgrade – I just want the current equivalent of what I originally bought. To me, being pushed from a 2,000-spring wool mattress into a 1,600-spring thinner one is clearly a downgrade, even though the prices now happen to line up.

Is this actually allowed? My understanding is that under the Consumer Rights Act and their 7-year guarantee, a faulty product should be replaced with something of equivalent quality, and that discounts shouldn’t affect that.

I also purchased it through credit, which I believe might give me an even stronger defense.

Any advice on how to push this, or whether John Lewis are in the wrong here, would be hugely appreciated. I know they had a lawsuit against them for a similar issue, and I have asked for the complete transcripts.

Thanks in advance.

Under your consumer rights you would be entitled to a refund of what you paid minus the use you received form the goods before the failure. Using JL's normal methods that would mean you would get 42/72ths of your original price but in cash rather than credit. 

If the model is no longer available then a like for like replacement isnt possible as under the CRA it should be the same not just similar and similarly these type of things are typically "repairable". Obviously parties can agree to whatever they want but you can't force "something similar" as a replacement through the courts as that isnt what your right is. 

The Warranty is a different matter and in these sorts of circumstances can often be more generous than the CRA but you would need to read what the warranty actually states. 

Credit card just replicates your statutory rights to your credit card company, they would be offering a refund of less than £539 because it would reflect the 2.5 years use you got before it went faulty. 

What credit are they actually offering? £539 or £719? or is it £539 but you still have the partner discount so effectively its still £719?

CRA would give you £314.40 cash using JL's method, you could argue thats a bit low but court cases on how "use" should be calculated are thin on the ground.

UnHappyMattressMan

MyRealNameToo said:

Under your consumer rights you would be entitled to a refund of what you paid minus the use you received form the goods before the failure. Using JL's normal methods that would mean you would get 42/72ths of your original price but in cash rather than credit. 

If the model is no longer available then a like for like replacement isnt possible as under the CRA it should be the same not just similar and similarly these type of things are typically "repairable". Obviously parties can agree to whatever they want but you can't force "something similar" as a replacement through the courts as that isnt what your right is. 

The Warranty is a different matter and in these sorts of circumstances can often be more generous than the CRA but you would need to read what the warranty actually states. 

Credit card just replicates your statutory rights to your credit card company, they would be offering a refund of less than £539 because it would reflect the 2.5 years use you got before it went faulty. 

What credit are they actually offering? £539 or £719? or is it £539 but you still have the partner discount so effectively its still £719?

CRA would give you £314.40 cash using JL's method, you could argue thats a bit low but court cases on how "use" should be calculated are thin on the ground.

Thank you for your reply. 

It doesn't at all feel right to me that we can be sold a faulty good, and just end up with a worse product in the end. I accept the law isn't like this. Is 30 months use of a faulty mattress equivalent to 30 months use of a good one?

All I am asking for was a £150 more expensive mattress that has the same number of springs as the one I bought. Which in my eyes is "like for like".

Where I’m struggling is that John Lewis are not offering that statutory remedy either, they’re offering store credit capped to the discounted price paid, which forces me into a lower-spec product while also avoiding a cash refund. That feels like neither a proper CRA remedy (partial refund) nor a proper guarantee remedy (repair or like-for-like replacement).

Just a note, it was under a JL credit agreement, not on a credit card.

They are offering £539, we still have the partnership discount so we can buy a £719 mattress, but its worse than the one we have:

Our mattress: john-lewis-waitrose-wool-no-3-pocket-spring-mattress-soft-medium-tension-king-size

Same price (worse): john-lewis-waitrose-wool-1600-pocket-spring-mattress-medium-firm-tension-king-size (£719)

Comparable: john-lewis-british-natural-collection-hemp-2750-mattress-regular-tension-king-size (£879)

(I cant post links sorry)

Sounds like court would be worse. I can't believe they won't budge on £150.

visidigi

UnHappyMattressMan said:

Hi all,

I’m hoping for some advice on a John Lewis mattress guarantee dispute that doesn’t feel right.

On 27 June 2023 I bought a John Lewis Waitrose Wool No. 3 pocket spring mattress (king size). It’s a decent model – 2,000 pocket springs, 2.1kg of British wool, 32cm deep – sold with a 7-year guarantee. Normal price was £719, but I paid £539 using a partner discount. It was bought on John Lewis-arranged interest-free finance.

After about 30 months, a spring has failed internally and is pushing through the mattress – I can physically feel the metal through the surface. John Lewis have accepted it is faulty (independent inspector confirmed manufacturing fault), but say the model is discontinued.

The problem is what they’re offering instead. They will only give me replacement credit based on what I paid (£539 / £719), which forces me into a much lower-spec mattress in their current range (fewer springs, less wool, thinner and a firmer feel). They say they can’t supply the nearest equivalent because I used a partner discount and they “can’t give goodwill or upgrades” to partners.

I’m not asking for an upgrade – I just want the current equivalent of what I originally bought. To me, being pushed from a 2,000-spring wool mattress into a 1,600-spring thinner one is clearly a downgrade, even though the prices now happen to line up.

Is this actually allowed? My understanding is that under the Consumer Rights Act and their 7-year guarantee, a faulty product should be replaced with something of equivalent quality, and that discounts shouldn’t affect that.

I also purchased it through credit, which I believe might give me an even stronger defense.

Any advice on how to push this, or whether John Lewis are in the wrong here, would be hugely appreciated. I know they had a lawsuit against them for a similar issue, and I have asked for the complete transcripts.

Thanks in advance.

You can't discount partner discount and the 2.5 years use from your entitlement to be made good. If they are offering you £539 credit take it, its, believe it or not, a good offer.

UnHappyMattressMan

Hi everyone, sounds like the offer is good. Can I just ask if there is any extra nuance on the fact that we bought it through John Lewis Financing (possibly Creation Consumer Finance). I'm aware JL aren't signed up to the ombudsman, but would the FOS be interested in:

Contract: Financial agreement for 2,000 Spring Premium Mattress with 7 year guarantee

Breach: Failed after 2.5 years, no replacement of the same specification (Therefore failing to honour the description and quality of the original contract.

S75 claim: Retailer failing to provide proper remedy by "Making me whole". John Lewis’s 7-year guarantee is a specific promise of quality and durability. If their guarantee says they will "repair or replace" a faulty unit, they have contractually waived their right to just give you a "partial refund" for the 2.5 years of use.

My understanding is it costs them if a case is opened, so they might just give in on the £150.
Sorry if i'm sounding stupid, just piecing together bits from the contract and gov websites.

visidigi

UnHappyMattressMan said:

Hi everyone, sounds like the offer is good. Can I just ask if there is any extra nuance on the fact that we bought it through John Lewis Financing (possibly Creation Consumer Finance). I'm aware JL aren't signed up to the ombudsman, but would the FOS be interested in:

Contract: Financial agreement for 2,000 Spring Premium Mattress with 7 year guarantee

Breach: Failed after 2.5 years, no replacement of the same specification (Therefore failing to honour the description and quality of the original contract.

S75 claim: Retailer failing to provide proper remedy by "Making me whole". John Lewis’s 7-year guarantee is a specific promise of quality and durability. If their guarantee says they will "repair or replace" a faulty unit, they have contractually waived their right to just give you a "partial refund" for the 2.5 years of use.

My understanding is it costs them if a case is opened, so they might just give in on the £150.
Sorry if i'm sounding stupid, just piecing together bits from the contract and gov websites.

we can't see the terms of your warranty (as they evolve over time) - so only you can say if there is no monetary option available under the warranty. Additionally, you should check on the terms of the partner discount, as this may different to the standard retail consumer offering. 

...in your case you need to decide if you are claiming under the warranty or your rights, you can't do both. If its warranty you need to very carefully go through it in full. Including the terms of the partner discount offering (e.g. if the partner discount says you cant use the extended warranties or the never knowing undersold policy for example then...well, you can't claim on that.

MyRealNameToo

UnHappyMattressMan said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Under your consumer rights you would be entitled to a refund of what you paid minus the use you received form the goods before the failure. Using JL's normal methods that would mean you would get 42/72ths of your original price but in cash rather than credit. 

If the model is no longer available then a like for like replacement isnt possible as under the CRA it should be the same not just similar and similarly these type of things are typically "repairable". Obviously parties can agree to whatever they want but you can't force "something similar" as a replacement through the courts as that isnt what your right is. 

The Warranty is a different matter and in these sorts of circumstances can often be more generous than the CRA but you would need to read what the warranty actually states. 

Credit card just replicates your statutory rights to your credit card company, they would be offering a refund of less than £539 because it would reflect the 2.5 years use you got before it went faulty. 

What credit are they actually offering? £539 or £719? or is it £539 but you still have the partner discount so effectively its still £719?

CRA would give you £314.40 cash using JL's method, you could argue thats a bit low but court cases on how "use" should be calculated are thin on the ground.

Thank you for your reply. 

It doesn't at all feel right to me that we can be sold a faulty good, and just end up with a worse product in the end. I accept the law isn't like this. Is 30 months use of a faulty mattress equivalent to 30 months use of a good one?

All I am asking for was a £150 more expensive mattress that has the same number of springs as the one I bought. Which in my eyes is "like for like".

Where I’m struggling is that John Lewis are not offering that statutory remedy either, they’re offering store credit capped to the discounted price paid, which forces me into a lower-spec product while also avoiding a cash refund. That feels like neither a proper CRA remedy (partial refund) nor a proper guarantee remedy (repair or like-for-like replacement).

Just a note, it was under a JL credit agreement, not on a credit card.

They are offering £539, we still have the partnership discount so we can buy a £719 mattress, but its worse than the one we have:

Our mattress: john-lewis-waitrose-wool-no-3-pocket-spring-mattress-soft-medium-tension-king-size

Same price (worse): john-lewis-waitrose-wool-1600-pocket-spring-mattress-medium-firm-tension-king-size (£719)

Comparable: john-lewis-british-natural-collection-hemp-2750-mattress-regular-tension-king-size (£879)

(I cant post links sorry)

Sounds like court would be worse. I can't believe they won't budge on £150.

Yes because it was good until it went faulty... I'm assuming this fault has occurred recently and it isnt that it happened after 2 months and you've just been living with an uncomfortable bed. If that were the case that would be your own fault for living with it for 28 months rather than raising it as soon as the fault happened. 

There is no like for like replacement as you say its been discontinued, the law allows for a like for like not for something broadly similar so you can't force them to give you something they dont have. Outside of rips in the outer layer mattresses generally arent really repairable which leaves the final remedy under the CRA which is a refund of the price paid less an amount for use to date. 

As such a full refund is a fairly generous outcome, unfortunately inflation means stuff gets more expensive over time but you have had a bed for 2.5 years that won't have cost you a penny and with a little added (it won't be £150 because it'll get a partner discount too) you'll have a brand new hemp bed 

littleboo

Its seems a very reasonable offer. You will have had free use of a mattress for the best part of 2.5 years. Your brand new mattress will be just that, brand new, not 2.5 years into its normal life span.

Woodstok2000

How about this one:

https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-heritage-4000-mattress-firm-tension-king-size/p114393481

screech_78

UnHappyMattressMan said:

Hi everyone, sounds like the offer is good. Can I just ask if there is any extra nuance on the fact that we bought it through John Lewis Financing (possibly Creation Consumer Finance). I'm aware JL aren't signed up to the ombudsman, but would the FOS be interested in:

Contract: Financial agreement for 2,000 Spring Premium Mattress with 7 year guarantee

Breach: Failed after 2.5 years, no replacement of the same specification (Therefore failing to honour the description and quality of the original contract.

S75 claim: Retailer failing to provide proper remedy by "Making me whole". John Lewis’s 7-year guarantee is a specific promise of quality and durability. If their guarantee says they will "repair or replace" a faulty unit, they have contractually waived their right to just give you a "partial refund" for the 2.5 years of use.

My understanding is it costs them if a case is opened, so they might just give in on the £150.
Sorry if i'm sounding stupid, just piecing together bits from the contract and gov websites.

Really? 

Are you a Partner? Or are you an additional cardholder? Regardless, partner discount is
a use of profit and if you do something that costs the Partnership money (when neither the warranty terms or your statutory rights have been breached) there can be very serious ramifications for the Partner whose discount you are using. Tread carefully. 

Aylesbury_Duck

UnHappyMattressMan said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Under your consumer rights you would be entitled to a refund of what you paid minus the use you received form the goods before the failure. Using JL's normal methods that would mean you would get 42/72ths of your original price but in cash rather than credit. 

If the model is no longer available then a like for like replacement isnt possible as under the CRA it should be the same not just similar and similarly these type of things are typically "repairable". Obviously parties can agree to whatever they want but you can't force "something similar" as a replacement through the courts as that isnt what your right is. 

The Warranty is a different matter and in these sorts of circumstances can often be more generous than the CRA but you would need to read what the warranty actually states. 

Credit card just replicates your statutory rights to your credit card company, they would be offering a refund of less than £539 because it would reflect the 2.5 years use you got before it went faulty. 

What credit are they actually offering? £539 or £719? or is it £539 but you still have the partner discount so effectively its still £719?

CRA would give you £314.40 cash using JL's method, you could argue thats a bit low but court cases on how "use" should be calculated are thin on the ground.

They are offering £539, we still have the partnership discount so we can buy a £719 mattress, but its worse than the one we have:

This is the crux of it, I think.  You started in the position of being able to buy £719 worth of product for £539.  If they return £539 to you, you are able to buy £719 of product for £539.  After over two years of use they're giving you a full refund.  That seems more than fair to me.  Prices change all the time.  I'm sure you wouldn't feel hard done by if this was a technical product, where prices can sometimes reduce in absolute terms over two years, even for superior specifications, and you were offered a full refund and were able to buy a better model and have change.  I bought a non-smart HD TV for £600 several years ago.  Today, £600 would buy me a smart, 4K TV with a larger screen.

As much as you can't believe JL won't budge over £150, I'm a little surprised that you're prepared to get into a protracted (and possibly legal) argument with you or your partner's employer, over the same sum.