safest way to save on benefits without affecting claims

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Gold, Silver, Investments, ISAs are all capital... and you are required to declare such ... same with cash stuffed anywhere!

With gold / sliver it isn't clear cut
With  R(H)7/08,   Are you the owner of it (yes) in it physical (yes) is it land or a business asset (no)  that leads it to being a personal possession which is disregarded.
Not seen it put to the test.  

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Gold, Silver, Investments, ISAs are all capital... and you are required to declare such ... same with cash stuffed anywhere!

With gold / sliver it isn't clear cut
With  R(H)7/08,   Are you the owner of it (yes) in it physical (yes) is it land or a business asset (no)  that leads it to being a personal possession which is disregarded.
Not seen it put to the test.  

I took their referencing to be indicative of investment (which they may already have!) rather like shares... not the physical form or jewellery. 

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Gold, Silver, Investments, ISAs are all capital... and you are required to declare such ... same with cash stuffed anywhere!

With gold / sliver it isn't clear cut
With  R(H)7/08,   Are you the owner of it (yes) in it physical (yes) is it land or a business asset (no)  that leads it to being a personal possession which is disregarded.
Not seen it put to the test.  

I took their referencing to be indicative of investment (which they may already have!) rather like shares... not the physical form or jewellery. 

If you invest in gold / silver you have that ownership that amount of gold / silver, it might be stored elsewhere but that doesn't seem to matter, you still own it.

Grumpy_chap

Muttleythefrog said:

 Animal sanctuary a good choice I'd say by the way... options for sponsoring animals locally in such?

Is there a point at which donations to the animal sanctuary become DoC?  Particularly if the OP is increasing donations for the very purpose to avoid savings increasing and UC reducing.

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Gold, Silver, Investments, ISAs are all capital... and you are required to declare such ... same with cash stuffed anywhere!

With gold / sliver it isn't clear cut
With  R(H)7/08,   Are you the owner of it (yes) in it physical (yes) is it land or a business asset (no)  that leads it to being a personal possession which is disregarded.
Not seen it put to the test.  

I also took the OP's comments as suggesting a gold-fund which would be investment and needs to be declared as capital.
If the gold is personal possessions, is that really limited to jewellery and such like (which might include family heirlooms that it would be cruel to force disposal)?  This crops up periodically in the forums and gold sovereigns / krugerrands and premium watches get mentioned.  Certainly, the former two seem to have no practical purpose other than investment value so I would not be certain they are excluded from capital as "personal possession".  The premium watch, if purchased to ensure capital does not increase, also seems to be on the boundary of DoC.

Spoonie_Turtle

Grumpy_chap said:

Muttleythefrog said:

 Animal sanctuary a good choice I'd say by the way... options for sponsoring animals locally in such?

Is there a point at which donations to the animal sanctuary become DoC?  Particularly if the OP is increasing donations for the very purpose to avoid savings increasing and UC reducing.

Not if it's coming out of excess income.  Nor if savings are below 6k as using those doesn't materially affect the award so it's irrelevant in practice.

What I would say OP is to make sure you have the right perspective on how savings above £6,000 would affect your award - it's a deduction of £4.35 per every £250 or part thereof above 6k, up to 16k.  So in theory the maximum deduction you could have would be £174 (40x4.35, if savings just under 16k) which you might think is worth it to have a decent financial cushion.
Although with a surplus of ~1,000 a month I can see how your savings could add up quite quickly.

I agree with Muttley that it is of your choosing to an extent though, there are tons of charities you could donate to (perhaps different one-offs if you don't want to commit beyond the one you regularly support) if you really can't think of any other way to use the surplus money.  Or GoFundMes / JustGiving for people needing something you would like to help out with, perhaps medical equipment or treatment (yes even in the UK).  If that sounds like something you'd like to do but aren't sure how to verify they're legit, Jason Manford (a comedian and public figure) does Charity Ninjas so you'd know those are legit.

^ btw no judgement here from me, I'm not saying you necessarily *should* do any of that, just it is an easy option if you are determined that you don't want the hassle of it accumulating and need some ideas that aren't fraud and that aren't accumulating material things you don't want or can't use.  Keeping claiming everything you're entitled to and then choosing what to do with the surplus is a better position to be in than stopping claiming something and then finding yourself actually needing the money further down the line.

HillStreetBlues

Grumpy_chap said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Gold, Silver, Investments, ISAs are all capital... and you are required to declare such ... same with cash stuffed anywhere!

With gold / sliver it isn't clear cut
With  R(H)7/08,   Are you the owner of it (yes) in it physical (yes) is it land or a business asset (no)  that leads it to being a personal possession which is disregarded.
Not seen it put to the test.  

I also took the OP's comments as suggesting a gold-fund which would be investment and needs to be declared as capital.
If the gold is personal possessions, is that really limited to jewellery and such like (which might include family heirlooms that it would be cruel to force disposal)?  This crops up periodically in the forums and gold sovereigns / krugerrands and premium watches get mentioned.  Certainly, the former two seem to have no practical purpose other than investment value so I would not be certain they are excluded from capital as "personal possession".  The premium watch, if purchased to ensure capital does not increase, also seems to be on the boundary of DoC.

Rereading I can see it can be taken both ways and both investing in the actual gold  or having shares in a fund.

Whatever anyone's opinion the litmus test is case law. A gold bar will be capital, but is also a personal possession as it's physical, land is also a personal possession but land is expressly stated as being included in capital calculations unless there is an exemption (e.g. you live on it) But there is nothing about gold being expressly stated as being including in capital calculations. As Mr Jabobs' ruled if it's not in a subcategory then by default that personal possession is excluded from any calculations.

itsthelittlethings

If you are really having that much capital in excess and have good organisational skills I would be tempted to accumulate more savings, say £10k and notify DWP and have deductions made from you UC. You will need to be very good with figures and liaison with DWP to take this approach.

Muttleythefrog

Grumpy_chap said:

Muttleythefrog said:

 Animal sanctuary a good choice I'd say by the way... options for sponsoring animals locally in such?

Is there a point at which donations to the animal sanctuary become DoC?  Particularly if the OP is increasing donations for the very purpose to avoid savings increasing and UC reducing.

lol... yep... I think ultimately the DWP would struggle to argue their case even in quite extreme situations of say subscription donations given many people like animals and derive pleasure from such activities. In their situation where they seem not to have extravagant social spending I'd just argue 'instead of wasting money on fancy dresses, cinema tickets to watch rubbish, a new car that'd quickly lose value and meals out complaining about undercooked food we like to make a tangible difference to the lives of others which helps with our mental health and encourages us out on physically healthy activities like visiting our sponsored animals'. I imagine more scrutiny if ever over £6k in savings but I'd be confident of batting that one back. 'Have you ever tried to explain to a donkey you're no longer going to fund its food when it had lived for years with abuse?'... I'd lay it on thick...lol. I don't think they've mentioned family etc.. but I reiterate my suggestion that other people can be a good vehicle... and gifts like subscriptions for relatives for adopting animals is an idea especially given most people are likely to like the gift... and it would give more known expenditures they could rely on... while if ever queried... 'birthday gift' or Xmas present etc. Even better do the subscription through credit card payments and you've got another layer of protection from the DWP.as paying off debts acceptable etc and CC accounts they don't seem to typically have interest in (I imagine because credit cards hold zero considerable capital)..

Archerychick

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6650481/safest-way-to-save-on-benefits-without-affecting-claims

it’s sounds like you do not need all the income you have from UC, which is designed to cover living and housing costs. Your living costs are covered and you have excess that you’re looking to hide away, which would be fraud if not declared.

The gov website details all the places and things that are taken into account in respect of savings https://www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-money-savings-and-investments

My best advice is to be open & honest with your claim, and you’ll receive what you’re entitled to.

karens_freebies

Holiday,decorate update ,do the garden up,new clothes ,birthday,Xmas pressies

.Day trips, lots of ways to use it up or put it in a safe

.Wouldn't cancel benefits ,hard enough to get them in the first place .