Wording of charity legacy

DippySkippy

I'm wary of leaving a residuary % legacy to a charity having heard then can be very aggressive of execs in pursuit of every last penny. A fixed amount obviously isnt ideal - does anyone have any suitable wording to solve this conundrum.

Was wondering of options such as:

x% of residuary estate rounded down to nearest £1000

All beneficiary legacies are contingent upon them make an approximate % gift to the charity

or even dont leave anything directly to charity (that could be contested), but:

All beneficiaries must agree a Deed of Variance providing a pecuniary legacy of approximately x% of the estate to <charity>

SiliconChip

Your solicitor is the best person to advise on suitable wording when they draw up the Will, although I doubt if there is any wording that would be binding on beneficiaries in the way you suggest.

Robin9

DippySkippy said:

.............................. A fixed amount obviously isnt ideal -...............................................

Why????????????????

Mands

Robin9 said:

DippySkippy said:

.............................. A fixed amount obviously isnt ideal -...............................................

Why????????????????

Why does your question need 16 question marks?

It is 2026, you are writing your will. Your estate is 100k and you want to leave a small proportion to the local dogs home. You specify a bequest of 1k.

You live another 20 years, don't make another will. Need nursing care. When you eventually pass your estate is worth 20k. That 1k bequest is now 5% of your estate rather than the 1% you envisaged. 

OR you come into money. Your estate is now worth 500k but the dogs home still only receives sufficient money to buy half a dozen first class stamps. This is absolutely not what you intended.

saajan_12

DippySkippy said:

I'm wary of leaving a residuary % legacy to a charity having heard then can be very aggressive of execs in pursuit of every last penny. A fixed amount obviously isnt ideal - does anyone have any suitable wording to solve this conundrum.

Was wondering of options such as:

x% of residuary estate rounded down to nearest £1000

All beneficiary legacies are contingent upon them make an approximate % gift to the charity

or even dont leave anything directly to charity (that could be contested), but:

All beneficiaries must agree a Deed of Variance providing a pecuniary legacy of approximately x% of the estate to <charity>

Interesting concern, though I don't think this one would help - the charity could equally push to get the residual % to be £x,001 rather than x,999 as the extra £2 gets them an extra £1000. So it doesn't necessarily help quash the potential argument. 

Also not sure how a deed saying "you agree to amend this deed" would work - I'd think the charity would be able to look through that and insist on the same rights of the varied deed as if it were there all along. 

Just spitballing as I don't KNOW any of this just trying to help with a line of thinking to verify with a solicitor. However another suggestion could be you will the value of a certain asset to them? Eg the value of XYZ investment account. Albeit you'd need to update the will if you entirely moved your investments. 

Brie

I've heard of charity beneficiaries pushing for the highest possible sale price of property as they've been told they'll get 5% of the value or similar.  So rather than taking a slightly lower price they end up delaying the sale to the detriment of other beneficiaries.  

So I'd heard it suggested that a will could have a percentage but then also a named amount.  So something like "5% of the total value of the assets or £5k maximum."

Savvy_Sue

Mands said:

Robin9 said:

DippySkippy said:

.............................. A fixed amount obviously isnt ideal -...............................................

Why????????????????

Why does your question need 16 question marks?

To be fair, there is a limit to how short a reply can be. When told "your message is too short", the temptation to add a load of ?????????????? would be tempting ... if the person asking Why? has never thought about why there are pros and cons of both fixed amounts and % legacies to charities. 

DippySkippy

Thanks for above comments

Use a solicitor - in my experience they are useless

Had a play with chatGPT (I know it cant be trusted) and DoV options seems promising along the lines of:

Gifts Conditional on a Single Deed of Variation

I GIVE the remainder of my estate to my named beneficiaries only if they all sign a single Deed of Variation within [x months] of my death.

The Deed of Variation must create:

1. a cash legacy to Charity AAA, of [address], Registered Charity Number [number], equal to at least 10% of my Residuary Estate; and

2. a cash legacy to Charity BBB, of [address], Registered Charity Number [number], equal to at least 10% of my Residuary Estate.

If the beneficiaries fail to sign the Deed of Variation as a group, none of them will receive their gifts, and my Executors may treat those shares as if the beneficiaries had died before me and distribute them to the remaining beneficiaries (or otherwise as my Executors think fit).

On the face of it I think this solves the conundrum in that it allows determination of the fixed cash legacy to the charity based on estate value at death. Cant see how charity could challenge this or why they would bother to. Though I am suspicious its this simple as otherwise wouldnt solicitors suggest it (oh - but they are solicitors), unless the charity hassle is a recent thing

Savvy_Sue

I can foresee one difficulty.

I am one of your beneficiaries. I have fallen on hard times and I am either in receipt of means tested benefits, OR the council is paying for me to live in a care home. 

Damned if I do, damned if I don't (deliberate deprivation of assets).

OR I don't need your bequest, AND I have fallen out with one of your other beneficiaries. I will deliberately deprive everyone else of your bequest.

Pity the poor executors ... Not going to be easy or inexpensive to resolve.

sheramber

Why not just say the charities get 10% of the residual estate?  Why involve the beneficiaries?

Residual estate   £50k

Do both get 10% x £50k or does one 10% of 50k and the other gets 10% of 50k less the 10% given to charity A?

SadCodeMan

I think there are other problems with the wording too I am afraid. I am sure it could be fixed but do wonder if it is worth it?

I am sure there are other problems with this but, would it not be simpler to say something along the lines of:

I give a sum of between 9% and 11% of the estate to the charity. The exact sum to be at the entire discretion of the Executor.

There are still the other worries about the charity being keen to chase up property selling (or whatever) but
a) It gives fewer areas where they might challenge the amount they get.
b) If they are a pain duriung the process, the Executor at least has the option of going for the lower level...

It does have the benfit of being (relatively) simpler though.