Estates petition

topbanana1985

lincroft1710 said:

I'm a member of Change.org and have had hundreds of petitions sent to me for my support. If you really want to get anywhere with your petition (and to be honest I don't think it is viable), you need to tighten it up considerably.  

Thank you for the advice.

I know I'm very unlikely to get anywhere, as I'm just a drop in the ocean. But I wanted to at least try.

Do you, or does anyone else, have any suggestions on how I can improve it or how I can achieve what I'm trying to achieve?

I am already writing to my MP, which I'm hoping will help a bit.

But if anyone has any other suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

user1977

I'm not aware of any such petitions having actually led to new legislation.

I'm also not convinced it's worthwhile - bear in mind that (despite popular mythology) the vast, vast majority of estates are not contentious in any material way - this sounds like adding to the bureaucracy for everyone, and won't necessarily make much difference if the parties are at loggerheads.

tooldle

topbanana1985 said:

tooldle said:

A solicitor is unlikely to have a separate ‘executor bank account’ for each client. I think asking for a copy of transactions into and out of their client account, would be unreasonable. Professionals can and do make mistakes. Casting my mind back to accountancy training, I remember well my tutor saying “if your balance sheet doesn’t balance, is the error divisible by 9. If so, you’ve likely reversed a pair of numbers somewhere”. There is of course no excuse for not back checking before sending figures to a client. 

Having been an executor myself, I’d not want the burden of producing what could be considerable extra paperwork to support the estate accounts. What happens if a lay executor has incurred significant legal costs that are subsequently challenged? I’m aware of a case where a beneficiary had mistakenly not acted on an instruction meaning the executor (supported by the same beneficiary) had to seek additional very expensive legal advice. Eventually the forgotten instruction came to light, rendering many thousands of pounds of charges unnecessary. 

Lay executors can easily get out of their depth with more complex estates.

I agree, everyone does make mistakes and I appreciate that we are all only human, mistakes are a part of life.
As you have been an executor previously, if a beneficiary came to you and said "it appears you have made some mistakes, look, this doesn't add up, this account number is incorrect and where has this £200 disappeared to?" 
I would imagine, you, being a decent person would apologise for said mistakes and rectify them immediately, wouldn't you?
The executor we are dealing with, he has not done that, in fact he has even denied the mistakes and said that there is nothing wrong with the accounts at all. He then continued to make further mistakes.

48 mistakes and an 8 page complaint to the ombudsman and he still denied the mistakes and carried on creating even more mistakes.

Hence our request for evidence to try and figure out what is true and what isn't. 
His denial of all the mistakes and refusal to provide any evidence supporting his claims/denials, and now his refusal to give us our inheritance until we absolve him, this just causes more suspicions for us. 

12 years this has been going on. Had he just admitted his mistakes and rectified them when we pointed them out to him, years ago, then we wouldn't be where we are right now.

Having lost both parents at a young age is tough enough as it is. Throw into the mix being stuck with an executor like this, with no legal rights for us and no ways to help ourselves, stressed is an understatement. Having been on this end of it, I think being an executor, personally I would find pretty easy and I certainly wouldn't treat beneficiaries in the disgraceful way that he has done to us. I would happily provide whatever evidence I could in order to rectify/ease a beneficiary's concerns, even if it did mean extra time and work for me.

Hi topbanana85 . I remember your previous threads. Whilst I sympathise with your position, I’d opt for a pragmatic route especially as the amounts concerned are so low. A mistake did arise in one of the estates I was dealing with. My approach was one of cost / benefit. Whilst my time cannot be charged for, I’m not going to waste hours of it chasing down a low value mistake made elsewhere. In the same vein, I’d be very unwilling to administer another estate if the requirements on me were to be increased.
I hope you can find a solution of sorts soon.

lincroft1710

topbanana1985 said:

lincroft1710 said:

I'm a member of Change.org and have had hundreds of petitions sent to me for my support. If you really want to get anywhere with your petition (and to be honest I don't think it is viable), you need to tighten it up considerably.  

Thank you for the advice.

I know I'm very unlikely to get anywhere, as I'm just a drop in the ocean. But I wanted to at least try.

Do you, or does anyone else, have any suggestions on how I can improve it or how I can achieve what I'm trying to achieve?

I am already writing to my MP, which I'm hoping will help a bit.

But if anyone has any other suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

I'm sorry but I think @user1977's post is spot on 

topbanana1985

tooldle said:

topbanana1985 said:

tooldle said:

A solicitor is unlikely to have a separate ‘executor bank account’ for each client. I think asking for a copy of transactions into and out of their client account, would be unreasonable. Professionals can and do make mistakes. Casting my mind back to accountancy training, I remember well my tutor saying “if your balance sheet doesn’t balance, is the error divisible by 9. If so, you’ve likely reversed a pair of numbers somewhere”. There is of course no excuse for not back checking before sending figures to a client. 

Having been an executor myself, I’d not want the burden of producing what could be considerable extra paperwork to support the estate accounts. What happens if a lay executor has incurred significant legal costs that are subsequently challenged? I’m aware of a case where a beneficiary had mistakenly not acted on an instruction meaning the executor (supported by the same beneficiary) had to seek additional very expensive legal advice. Eventually the forgotten instruction came to light, rendering many thousands of pounds of charges unnecessary. 

Lay executors can easily get out of their depth with more complex estates.

I agree, everyone does make mistakes and I appreciate that we are all only human, mistakes are a part of life.
As you have been an executor previously, if a beneficiary came to you and said "it appears you have made some mistakes, look, this doesn't add up, this account number is incorrect and where has this £200 disappeared to?" 
I would imagine, you, being a decent person would apologise for said mistakes and rectify them immediately, wouldn't you?
The executor we are dealing with, he has not done that, in fact he has even denied the mistakes and said that there is nothing wrong with the accounts at all. He then continued to make further mistakes.

48 mistakes and an 8 page complaint to the ombudsman and he still denied the mistakes and carried on creating even more mistakes.

Hence our request for evidence to try and figure out what is true and what isn't. 
His denial of all the mistakes and refusal to provide any evidence supporting his claims/denials, and now his refusal to give us our inheritance until we absolve him, this just causes more suspicions for us. 

12 years this has been going on. Had he just admitted his mistakes and rectified them when we pointed them out to him, years ago, then we wouldn't be where we are right now.

Having lost both parents at a young age is tough enough as it is. Throw into the mix being stuck with an executor like this, with no legal rights for us and no ways to help ourselves, stressed is an understatement. Having been on this end of it, I think being an executor, personally I would find pretty easy and I certainly wouldn't treat beneficiaries in the disgraceful way that he has done to us. I would happily provide whatever evidence I could in order to rectify/ease a beneficiary's concerns, even if it did mean extra time and work for me.

Hi topbanana85 . I remember your previous threads. Whilst I sympathise with your position, I’d opt for a pragmatic route especially as the amounts concerned are so low. A mistake did arise in one of the estates I was dealing with. My approach was one of cost / benefit. Whilst my time cannot be charged for, I’m not going to waste hours of it chasing down a low value mistake made elsewhere. In the same vein, I’d be very unwilling to administer another estate if the requirements on me were to be increased.
I hope you can find a solution of sorts soon.

Thank you, I appreciate your input.

1 mistake, in 1 estate compared to 48 mistakes in 1 estate and several other mistakes in a 2nd estate.
What I am proposing is for executors to provide documentation so that beneficiaries can see for themselves if what the executor has written in the accounts is correct/true. I do not expect the executor to go through everything, searching for mistakes, if the executor provided something, like bank statements for example, then the beneficiaries can look through them and see for themselves.
I can't imagine that printing out some bank statements would cause much more time and effort on the part of the executor.
I'd even go as far as to say that such documentation could be by request only, so that way there's no extra work on the executor unless the beneficiaries ask to see documentation (like we have). Because currently executors can write whatever they want and beneficiaries just have to accept that it's correct (even in situations like ours, where we know that what is written in the accounts is BS)

You may consider the amounts low and not worth the hassle, but to some beneficiaries it's not considered low amounts.
What you consider a mere throw away £200, is a few more meals on the table, or being able to have the heating on for a bit longer, for some.

If you wouldn't be an executor again, due to there possibly being a bit of extra work involved, at least you have options and choices, such as renouncing, hiring a solicitor to administer or power reserved if you're joint executors.

What would be a good solution, is for the executor to give us our inheritance, as he should do by law.

As you have been an executor, can I ask, did you get your beneficiaries to sign a discharge?
If so, at what point did you ask them to sign it? (Whilst the estate was still open and on going? Or at the end when the estate has been finished/finalised)

Thanks

topbanana1985

user1977 said:

I'm not aware of any such petitions having actually led to new legislation.

I'm also not convinced it's worthwhile - bear in mind that (despite popular mythology) the vast, vast majority of estates are not contentious in any material way - this sounds like adding to the bureaucracy for everyone, and won't necessarily make much difference if the parties are at loggerheads.

Agreed, not all estates are contentious. So then maybe it could be mandatory only if requested by beneficiaries. 
So if beneficiaries ask for supporting documentation, then, by law, the executor would have to provide it. Would this be a viable option?


If the beneficiaries are at loggerheads with the executor due to mistakes that the executor has made, surely having supporting documentation/estate bank statement would give the beneficiaries the knowledge and evidence needed to decide to either take it further or leave it be.
If you were in my position, would you not want to see if the executor is being truthful or not?

lincroft1710

This has taken up 12 years of your life, cost you (at least) £3500 and to brutally frank you are now wasting more time on a fruitless petition that has absolutely no chance of succeeding. For your own sanity it is time to stop. Every day that £1200 is worth less and less. As I read it on your previous thread the executors want the beneficiaries to sign a document so they can receive their inheritance. Surely it would be better for you all to sign and get your money now.


Even if your petition made it to Parliament, it would be probably be literally years before it became law, if indeed Parliament passed it, which it might not

user1977

topbanana1985 said:

user1977 said:

I'm not aware of any such petitions having actually led to new legislation.

I'm also not convinced it's worthwhile - bear in mind that (despite popular mythology) the vast, vast majority of estates are not contentious in any material way - this sounds like adding to the bureaucracy for everyone, and won't necessarily make much difference if the parties are at loggerheads.

Agreed, not all estates are contentious. So then maybe it could be mandatory only if requested by beneficiaries. 
So if beneficiaries ask for supporting documentation, then, by law, the executor would have to provide it. 

What would happen if they don't? I don't see how that puts the parties in any materially different position.

lincroft1710

With only 7 days left the petition has stalled at 71 signatures