eBay HMRC Yearly Reporting Jan-Dec Apr-Apr?

Dave1UK

TimeLord1 said:

Some people are selling thousands of items, thinking that as they're claiming they're personal possessions, they will be left alone, but once NI details are requested, they will probably go on the offensive. The platform has to submit where those grey area sales happen. Once the Private sales when thresholds are passed. 

Sure makes sense if you're selling thousands of stuff, for there to be some sort of regulation as to private vs business boundary.

The total sale £ figure makes sense, however the 30 item limit seems extremely ambiguous as to why 30? It makes it seem like they aren't only interested in differentiating between those who are running a business or trading. More so they just want to gather data or whatnot.

Personally I don't waste my time packaging and sending an item that I end up selling for less than £10, especially now with a 30 limit. Otherwise I'm sure one can find tonnes of bits and bobs around the house for £1-£5 to sell which even 100 orders off wouldn't breach the £ target.

se2020

Dave1UK said:

TimeLord1 said:

Some people are selling thousands of items, thinking that as they're claiming they're personal possessions, they will be left alone, but once NI details are requested, they will probably go on the offensive. The platform has to submit where those grey area sales happen. Once the Private sales when thresholds are passed. 

Sure makes sense if you're selling thousands of stuff, for there to be some sort of regulation as to private vs business boundary.

The total sale £ figure makes sense, however the 30 item limit seems extremely ambiguous as to why 30? It makes it seem like they aren't only interested in differentiating between those who are running a business or trading. More so they just want to gather data or whatnot.

Personally I don't waste my time packaging and sending an item that I end up selling for less than £10, especially now with a 30 limit. Otherwise I'm sure one can find tonnes of bits and bobs around the house for £1-£5 to sell which even 100 orders off wouldn't breach the £ target.

The initial consultation on this wanted ALL sales reported regardless of value or amount.

The marketplaces suggested this was too much of a burden so it was reduced to 30/€2000

I can see why the €2000 would apply as I would think most traders would be hitting the €1000 trading allowance after that value of sales.

No idea why they settled on 30 items.
I guess the marketplaces that were involved with the consultation maybe provided something showing that the majority of sellers selling less than 30 items were clearly just shifting old personal possessions and it would be an unnecessary burden for them to collect and report on this information?

Obviously hmrc want as much data as possible but it costs places like ebay money (profit) to provide it.
Once hmrc have the data all they need to do is run it automatically through a computer, send out a few warning letters and sit back waiting for the cash to roll in.
Plus the computer will throw up a few obvious targets who they will chase for bigger payments. 
Apparently the introduction of the digital sales tax costs hmrc around £6 million for a return of about £800 million in extra tax so I can see why they are keen on it

Dave1UK

se2020 said:

Dave1UK said:

TimeLord1 said:

Some people are selling thousands of items, thinking that as they're claiming they're personal possessions, they will be left alone, but once NI details are requested, they will probably go on the offensive. The platform has to submit where those grey area sales happen. Once the Private sales when thresholds are passed. 

Sure makes sense if you're selling thousands of stuff, for there to be some sort of regulation as to private vs business boundary.

The total sale £ figure makes sense, however the 30 item limit seems extremely ambiguous as to why 30? It makes it seem like they aren't only interested in differentiating between those who are running a business or trading. More so they just want to gather data or whatnot.

Personally I don't waste my time packaging and sending an item that I end up selling for less than £10, especially now with a 30 limit. Otherwise I'm sure one can find tonnes of bits and bobs around the house for £1-£5 to sell which even 100 orders off wouldn't breach the £ target.

The initial consultation on this wanted ALL sales reported regardless of value or amount.

The marketplaces suggested this was too much of a burden so it was reduced to 30/€2000

I can see why the €2000 would apply as I would think most traders would be hitting the €1000 trading allowance after that value of sales.

No idea why they settled on 30 items.
I guess the marketplaces that were involved with the consultation maybe provided something showing that the majority of sellers selling less than 30 items were clearly just shifting old personal possessions and it would be an unnecessary burden for them to collect and report on this information?

Obviously hmrc want as much data as possible but it costs places like ebay money (profit) to provide it.
Once hmrc have the data all they need to do is run it automatically through a computer, send out a few warning letters and sit back waiting for the cash to roll in.
Plus the computer will throw up a few obvious targets who they will chase for bigger payments. 
Apparently the introduction of the digital sales tax costs hmrc around £6 million for a return of about £800 million in extra tax so I can see why they are keen on it

Ah I'm not that clued up on the topic wasn't aware of that.

Yeah the £ limit figure makes sense, at the end of the day a business/trader wants to make profit, money, £1,700 for the year certainly won't fill your pockets.

Well it wouldn't have only been a burden for marketplaces and potentially costly to provide this data as you mention, you'd most likely see a lot if not all private sellers not use the platform anymore at all, a bad return for marketplaces for their assistance.

RFW

se2020 said:

I can see why the €2000 would apply as I would think most traders would be hitting the €1000 trading allowance after that value of sales.

No idea why they settled on 30 items.

As I understand it it was something across Europe that the UK government signed up to, so the £1000 trading threshold won't exist in other countries.

se2020

RFW said:

se2020 said:

I can see why the €2000 would apply as I would think most traders would be hitting the €1000 trading allowance after that value of sales.

No idea why they settled on 30 items.

As I understand it it was something across Europe that the UK government signed up to, so the £1000 trading threshold won't exist in other countries.

I think it's worldwide rather than just europe?
I don't know how many other countries have a trading allowance?
But I would expect most people could sell €2000 worth of personal possessions fairly easily on a regular basis?

I'd guess most traders would be aiming to make 50% profit so €2k of sales would generate maybe €250 of tax and maybe its just not worth the cost of enforcement and collection for amounts under that?

I know a few people who use ebay maybe once.or twice a year to sell. That's usually unwanted gifts or stuff they bought then decided they didn't use along with the one-off sales like a reasonably new microwave that doesn't match the new kitchen..

There is no point reporting all of these sales and using resources (at cost to the taxpayer) so a minimum number/amount makes sense.

I don't think it's the traders that want to make over £1700 a year without declaring tax that are the targets of this as they have always been a target (and obviously this new reporting will help chase them down).

I think this targets the sort of people that have bought some baby cloths for 50p each at a car boot sale. Baby has outgrown them so they have sold them on ebay at £4.50 each.
Child is now 14 but they are still going to the car boot every weekend and turning £10 into £100 thinking its a side hussle and they don't need to pay tax on it..
I think a lot of them will be scared when they get a letter and will either stop selling or start filling self assessments..

RFW

se2020 said:

I think it's worldwide rather than just europe?

You are correct it was an OECD intiative. It is predominantly European countries (inc all EU countries) signed up, plus Argentina, Canada, Bolivia, Columbia and Costa Rica, there may be one or two others.

The idea was said to be to catch large scale tax evasion across different countries. When I first read about it it sounded like it was mostly Far East evasion they were after. From what I see there are lots of small companies selling identical items and they tend to not last very long, they're usually gone within a year. That's across all major marketplaces.

se2020 said:

I don't know how many other countries have a trading allowance?

It's hard to tell from a Google search but it seems like the UK is fairly unique in that. There has been talk of making it substantially higher. That makes sense to me, as you say the cost involved in chasing people where they'll get little to no return doesn't seem very cost effective. As ever, the big evaders seem to continue to evade whilst the little people get caught in the net.