Scottish Power rate disparity

RebTech

I got a smart meter just over a month ago, already I've had a couple of bills, or at least the bill has been updated, anyway the rates are 31.676p day and 15.409p night. I'm on the standard tariff (can't switch because of a system issue that's being worked on).

My main problem at the moment is the rate being charged according to the meter is neither of these, it's 26.904p (from memory, but very close anyway). As you'd expect doing some arithmetic on the consumption numbers shown on the IHD gives 26.9.

I can't check the night rate right now because the meter display seemingly only shows the current rate, also I'm not sure when it changes. But whatever, how can the day rate be so far out?

QrizB

The rate on the meter sounds like the standard single rate tariff.

Don't panic; the rates stored on the meter are not used for billing.

What make and model is your meter? We might be able to help you find what button presses you need to display the other registers and stored tariffs.

RebTech

Thanks but I already found the manual, I can get the "Active TOU" shown but not the other.

The model is Aclara SGM1416-B.

Edit: I've now found this thread which might be useful.

QrizB

I've got an an Aclara 1412 myself, but it sounds like you've found your answers

RebTech

Should I contact SP to get the rate(s) on the meter corrected?

Scot_39

Does the meter record two registers - or like the rate might suggest currently only the one.

As you quoted what sounded like E7 style day / night rates for tariff (SP do multiple) - but SR for meter rate.

Check what is happening with the daily registers - does the meter have a total and rate 1 / rate 2 - or just a total / rate 1 ?

If its only recording all use on one register - SP will only strictly be able to bill you on one register - at single rate.   But they might offer you compensation if have decent day / night splits.

E7 would be 

£s = day register units (1?) used x day rate + night register units (2?) used x night rate + standing charges

Single Rate - £s = register 1 units used x single rate + Standing charges

You may need to get them to configure the economy 7 style / multirate tariff for on / off peak times.

Thats assuming your heating etc warrants economy 7 - without the likes of storage heaters or heat store central heating - E7 can actually work out more expensive.  Typically needing c35-40% to break even vs single rate.

Given a recent new meter - what tariff were you on on old meters - and what on new ?

Does your smart meter have active comms via DCC to supplier - that allowed the meter fitter or SP to remotely configure it properly ?

RebTech

Scot_39 said:

Does the meter record two registers - or like the rate might suggest currently only the one.

As you quoted what sounded like E7 style day / night rates for tariff (SP do multiple) - but SR for meter rate.

Check what is happening with the daily registers - does the meter have a total and rate 1 / rate 2 - or just a total / rate 1 ?

If its only recording all use on one register - SP will only strictly be able to bill you on one register - at single rate.   But they might offer you compensation if have decent day / night splits.

E7 would be 

£s = day register units (1?) used x day rate + night register units (2?) used x night rate + standing charges

Single Rate - £s = register 1 units used x single rate + Standing charges

You may need to get them to configure the economy 7 style / multirate tariff for on / off peak times.

Thats assuming your heating etc warrants economy 7 - without the likes of storage heaters or heat store central heating - E7 can actually work out more expensive.  Typically needing c35-40% to break even vs single rate.

Given a recent new meter - what tariff were you on on old meters - and what on new ?

Does your smart meter have active comms via DCC to supplier - that allowed the meter fitter or SP to remotely configure it properly ?

There are two registers but the rates according to the meter are the same, 26.940p. My previous tariff also had equal rates but lower, 21.882.

Technically everything seems fine including comms to supplier, going by the bills I've already had. I watched the meter switch from rate 2 to rate 1 at 7:35 this morning, I believe here in the south of Scotland the off-peak period is 23:00 to 7:30 nominal. I have storage heaters but don't like using them which is why I was happy with the previous tariff.

One question is should I press SP to fix the rates on the meter given I'll be switching tariffs ASAP anyway?

Another is, given I don't have gas here, what are my chances of finding another tariff that will allow me not to use the storage heating without punishing me financially? Maybe I should start another thread...

QrizB

RebTech said:

One question is should I press SP to fix the rates on the meter given I'll be switching tariffs ASAP anyway?

The rates on the meter are irrelevant. You're being charged whatever SP say your tariff is, which per your initial post is:

RebTech said:

..  the rates are 31.676p day and 15.409p night.

With this in mind, you should really be using your storage heaters.

RebTech said:

...what are my chances of finding another tariff that will allow me not to use the storage heating without punishing me financially?

The cheapest  heating option is to use your storage heaters. See the link in my signature for a general comparison of electric heating costs.

If you persist in not using them, the next cheapest option is a single-rate tariff. Use a comparison site and see what's available in your region. Home Energy seem to do quite well, for example.

RebTech

QrizB said:

With this in mind, you should really be using your storage heaters.

I understand that's generally the case but this particular setup can't be properly controlled, they're old and were seriously over-specified for this small flat in the first place. It's privately rented and for various reasons I don't want to push for modernisation.

QrizB said:
If you persist in not using them, the next cheapest option is a single-rate tariff. Use a comparison site and see what's available in your region. Home Energy seem to do quite well, for example.

Thanks, that's probably what I'll do.

Scot_39

Looks like despite being on a multirate tariff you have been set up to bill at flat rate in the past,  but as above its the tariff used to bill not the tariff on tge meter itself that counts.

You really dont want to use day hesters on swy whitemeter / e7 peak day rates - your 31.7p vs say 27p ?  See as @QRizB link the impact on costs (look relative - its unlikely your use anywhere near 10,000kWh in a small flat to get wnywhere near tge abdolutes)

Ps how is your water system opersting and het - immersion heater tank - and does that tank feed your shower or is shower a cold fed self heating electric ?.

My HW and shower uses upto 5kWh a dsy - in a small modern efficient flat - or one benifitting from solar gain or neighbours above below heat leaching into your flat - that can be larger than heating annually - another important cost to think about when choosing tariffs.


NSH - older ones anyway - to be fair dont suit everyone - but allow you to buy heat at off peak rate and time shift it to daytime / following evening etc heat.

Even old storage heaters have limitted user control via the input dial, some even have a manual or semi automated output vent control to increase air flow later in the day.

Turn the input down, they take less charge and do give less heat out which might suit a smaller flat and so also cost less to run.  Close tge output vent down at end of of night before overnight charge, open in evening allows a heat boost to release more of the remaing stored heat in evening etc.  Mines are 25-30 years old - use an electromechanical timer on the output instead   - you set a delay relative to end of charge period (your 0730) to open vent

I never run mine anywhere near max input - typical mild winter more like sub 3 - but im on e10 so charge back to that level 3 times per day.  With sub zero overnights im at 2-3 in living toom ,3 upstairs hall and 4 downstairs hall on my 1 large in lr , 2 small ns heaters (oclock or of 0- 11)

The problem is if say out all day - older heaters may be heating the flat whilst out and running out of steam by late evening.  

Many older models are likely to be wired to a restricted feed (your 5th port active 2300 until 0730 ?).

Can you tell us what make model of nsh you have or what sort of controls they have ?

If your heaters are meter restricted controlled for charging and with your shiny new smets2 meter, have you considered Snug Octopus to drive your nsh at 9p night rate.  Min 6 hrs plus 1 hr afternoon, but you can actually specify shorter via your user account - like say 1/2/3 hrs overnight max on restricted activation to control absolute bills / heater charge that way too etc.

WiserMiser

Can the NSHs warm the property sufficiently?  If so, you should use them on E7 or a suitable ToU tariff such as Snug.   That's likely to be cheaper than single rate electricity unless you're out all day every day.

Make sure you use the controls effectively.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UeB3Xf_qKvA

If they can't warm the property sufficiently then you probably have a failed element or two; do the Storage Heater Sanity Test to find out.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78890149/#Comment_78890149

They're cheap and easy to replace.  You don't need to involve your landlord, just call out an electrician to fit them.  Check first that they don't contain asbestos, some very old ones did.

https://www.armco.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/List-of-storage-heaters-containing-asbestos-updated-Jun-24.xlsx