Apple watch and fall detection

B0bbyEwing

flaneurs_lobster said:

Not an Apple Watch user but have a Samsung watch with similar powers.

There's a screed of stuff here https://support.apple.com/en-gb/108896 - assume your mother has an iPhone?

What's obvious is that several settings and options have to be set up before that alert gets sent. Is the watch 4G or reliant on Wi-fi/Bluetooth connectivity?

What might be relevant is that my watch has to be unlocked (PIN code) EVERY TIME it gets put on (it connects to my phone and therefore my emails etc) otherwise all it does is tell the time.

Is the Apple watch similar? Does your mother "sign in" each time it's put on?

Yes of course. iPhone 13 I think. It's no older than a 13.

The watch is WiFi/Bluetooth. It's not the mobile data one that you can get. Is also the Apple Watch SE 2 if I remember correctly.

Interesting point about the PIN. I forget what it was now, I think it was message notifications but she wasn't getting something that my wife was getting on hers & at that point they had pretty much identical set ups with only the phone being different (my wife had a 14/15). It turned out that my mother would put it on & not hit in the PIN whereas my wife would do it automatically so it didn't even register as something you may need to do because it was just auto pilot for her (wife). Sussed it in the end.

Whether she continues to enter the PIN or not though...........?

Emmia said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Before we start - yes, latest OS versions. 

Now aside from "it hasn't been set up", is there a reason as to why once set up & the person falls wearing an apple watch, it DOESN'T alert someone notified? 

This was one of the reasons we got our mother an AW. 
Found out yesterday that she took a tumble last week. As per, she refuses to accept help, she wants everything kept hush through embarrassment (I.E. I'm not to be told) & all that nonsense. She continuously & stubbornly refuses help but when you ignore her & just help anyway & tell her she's no choice then she accepts it. 

The watch didn't alert anyone though. It was only luckily my brother was in the house & heard all the clatter & went to find out what was going on & saw her on the floor. 

I haven't yet looked at phone or watch so my only thought is that she's been meddling with settings unintentionally, not knowing what she's pressing & has somehow turned it off. 

Outside of that possibility though, is there any other reason? 

Not sure of her mobile connection where she lives. I know it never used to be great many years ago but everything seems to be connected via WiFi these days. 

Looking at the information linked, if it's set up properly you'll only get an alert as the emergency contact AFTER the emergency services have been contacted. Your mum could also press the button to say she's ok. 

So it phones 999 first? 

I did wonder if perhaps the answer was her phone was out of range & maybe it was but I would doubt it as 99.9999999999999% the time her phone is in the living room & she fell in the kitchen & the house is small so should certainly be within range of each other.

Grumpy_chap said:

I have a Garmin watch with a similar type of fall / incident detection.  You have to be wearing the watch for it to me active and it then works using rapid deceleration as the primary metric of detecting a fall / incident.  What metric does the Apple Watch use to detect an incident?

The easiest way I have found to test the Garmin device is to vigorously shake the arms as though shaking water off the hands with the rapid swing down and then the hard stop.  That would be similar to the golf swing described by TadleyBaggie I would imagine.

As for why wouldn't the Apple Watch have detected the fall, well, if it works on the rapid deceleration, it is entirely possible to imagine a scenario where someone could fall landing on their torso first and would then bring their arms in under a more controlled way such that the wrist watch never detected a rapid deceleration.

The first thing to do is investigate what instruments / metrics in the watch are being used to detect an incident.

If fall alert really is required, a Careline / Telecare type system with a single big button to press would seem more simple than any kind of smart watch.

Good point. I don't actually know how far she fell. There's clutter everywhere (don't start! Honestly, we've been insisting on trying to create a better space to move in but talk about being stubborn!) so there's every chance she fell on top of a pile of something - therefore, not far at all.

I also have a Garmin (forerunner 965) yet when I landed flat on my backside at work one time (was pulling on some rope which snapped & I went flying) it never said a thing.

elsien said:

My mother normally casually drops into conversation a couple of weeks after she’s had a fall. Usually in the garden. She only owns up at the time if there is visible bruising. Still working on getting her to take a phone out with her, just in case. 

Couldn’t help but laugh though when she fell over the handrails she had put up on the steps to stop her from falling - when she was trying to paint them, obviously. 

Technology is a difficult one! We got our mother the watch for various reasons. Fall detection was one. Increased heart rate alerts being another etc.
Anyway many a time I'll say, have you not read your text? As it's sent via Whatsapp I know full well she hasn't. 

I haven't got a text she'll say. 

So you haven't had an alert to your watch either?

Nope she'll say.

And you've been wearing all the time?

Yes. Nothing has come through.

So I'll get the phone, ask what's that right there (text from me). Oh I never noticed it she'll say. The watch didn't ding though.

Did it not? *sends another text* ............ ding. 

Oh well it didn't ding earlier she'll say.

At this point I realise I'm not going to win but I've at least shown her the gizmos are working.

Emmia said:

GDB2222 said:

Emmia said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Before we start - yes, latest OS versions. 

Now aside from "it hasn't been set up", is there a reason as to why once set up & the person falls wearing an apple watch, it DOESN'T alert someone notified? 

This was one of the reasons we got our mother an AW. 
Found out yesterday that she took a tumble last week. As per, she refuses to accept help, she wants everything kept hush through embarrassment (I.E. I'm not to be told) & all that nonsense. She continuously & stubbornly refuses help but when you ignore her & just help anyway & tell her she's no choice then she accepts it. 

The watch didn't alert anyone though. It was only luckily my brother was in the house & heard all the clatter & went to find out what was going on & saw her on the floor. 

I haven't yet looked at phone or watch so my only thought is that she's been meddling with settings unintentionally, not knowing what she's pressing & has somehow turned it off. 

Outside of that possibility though, is there any other reason? 

Not sure of her mobile connection where she lives. I know it never used to be great many years ago but everything seems to be connected via WiFi these days. 

Looking at the information linked, if it's set up properly you'll only get an alert as the emergency contact AFTER the emergency services have been contacted. Your mum could also press the button to say she's ok. 

I'll bet £££ that the alarm triggered and mum pressed the button to say she was okay and didn’t want help.

We spent lots of money getting MIL a pendant so she could summon help if she needed it. She simply refused to wear it. 

We bought her a time controlled pill box, and spent ages carefully filling it with all the different pills she needed to take at different times of day. She took the batteries out, because 'it made a noise', smashed the lid, and jumbled up all the different doses, which she then proceeded to take at random, as normal. 

We none of us want to admit that we are getting old and frail, and these gadgets are unfamiliar, perhaps daunting, but above all a constant reminder that we have in fact become old and frail.  Of course, the old dears won’t cooperate. 

And we in turn will also not want to cooperate or admit we've got old.

Speak for yourself. I've been 21 for 21 years I'll have you know!

Grumpy_chap

B0bbyEwing said:

Emmia said:

Looking at the information linked, if it's set up properly you'll only get an alert as the emergency contact AFTER the emergency services have been contacted. Your mum could also press the button to say she's ok. 

So it phones 999 first? 

I don't have any Apple devices but, from my look online today, it does appear to be that the Apple Watch, when a fall is detected, calls the emergency services first.  There seem some opportunities for the watch to check in with the individual and a time delay of no response before the call to emergency services is placed.  In the case of an individual that does not sense the watch vibrating or pinging for a text, one assumes that individual would also not sense the watch vibrating / alerting in the event of a fall.

This "call the emergency services first" approach probably means that the Apple Watch must have a less sensitive trigger than it might do if the call was to a friend / relative.  False calls to the Police / Ambulance would be undesirable.

This is what Apple site says:

detects a hard fall while you're wearing your watch, it taps you on the wrist, sounds an alarm and displays an alert. You can choose to contact the emergency services, or dismiss the alert by pressing the Digital Crown, tapping Close in the top left-hand corner or tapping “I'm OK”.  If your Apple Watch detects that you’re moving, it will wait for you to respond to the alert and won’t call the emergency services automatically. If your watch detects that you’ve been immobile for about a minute, it will make the call automatically.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/108896

B0bbyEwing said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I have a Garmin watch with a similar type of fall / incident detection.  You have to be wearing the watch for it to me active and it then works using rapid deceleration as the primary metric of detecting a fall / incident.  What metric does the Apple Watch use to detect an incident?

The easiest way I have found to test the Garmin device is to vigorously shake the arms as though shaking water off the hands with the rapid swing down and then the hard stop.  That would be similar to the golf swing described by TadleyBaggie I would imagine.

As for why wouldn't the Apple Watch have detected the fall, well, if it works on the rapid deceleration, it is entirely possible to imagine a scenario where someone could fall landing on their torso first and would then bring their arms in under a more controlled way such that the wrist watch never detected a rapid deceleration.

The first thing to do is investigate what instruments / metrics in the watch are being used to detect an incident.

If fall alert really is required, a Careline / Telecare type system with a single big button to press would seem more simple than any kind of smart watch.

Good point. I don't actually know how far she fell. There's clutter everywhere (don't start! Honestly, we've been insisting on trying to create a better space to move in but talk about being stubborn!) so there's every chance she fell on top of a pile of something - therefore, not far at all.

I also have a Garmin (forerunner 965) yet when I landed flat on my backside at work one time (was pulling on some rope which snapped & I went flying) it never said a thing.

I'm not sure you picked up on the main point I was making about what actual metric is the device using to detect an incident?

I know that my Garmin uses rapid deceleration as the trigger parameter.  It then vibrates and (unless stopped) messages / calls my selected contact.  The selected contact can make a manual call to emergency services if need be.

Not all Garmin devices have incident detection.  Those that do have to have the function specifically activated.  In the case of pulling a rope which snaps so the individual lands flat on their back, the arm wearing the Garmin would be following and likely not slow at the same rate of deceleration as the individual's body.  Hence, it is understandable why such a fall might not be detected.

twopenny

How about giving these ladies a degrees of control.
Say you are worried that they can't call for help if they need it and what do they suggest maybe.

Having dealt with a number of elderly folk in my life I know it's tough. But usually if one of their friends or peers recommends something they are more likely to take it up. Then they are one of a group, a set, their version of'on trend' 😉

The only thing I can think of is one of a very small basic mobile phone to go in a pocket which when you press the button at the side it will alert named people. It's got some street cred even if not used.

But carrying it on you is still a problem.
 I've always had perfect balance and very active and an injury has changed that and I've had 2 falls which is downright scary for someone sporty. Of course I don't take my phone when I'm just popping out to the garden 😏 😊 but will take it always when I'm out in case anything happens.
you could try.

B0bbyEwing

Excuse me? 

twopenny

Bobby I wasn't being rude, just an alternative thought. If you want her to have something to keep her safe think about giving her control.
She's spent her life being in control and it's scary finding out you're not.
What her friends do is more likely to work than giving her a gadget. 

elsien

That is true. I can suggest things till I’m blue in the face, but if a friend suggests it,  it’s more likely to happen.