Merchant ships defective goods from China but return address is in the USA

BilboBarr

Hi all,

I'd just like to check what my options are, I've made the mistake of ordering goods and paying by debit card and not credit card. I was sooo angry with myself when I realised. Anyway!

I purchase some frying pans from Shop.novara.com and they were shipped from China, which was fine, but they arrived with defects.  I sent images and went through all the rest of the return process but they eventually did two things:

1. They provided a return address in the USA
2. They refused to refund shipping charges.

I'm 100% sure that where the goods are defective they will need to cover the return costs, so I'm fine with that, but I'm not paying my own money to have them bypass US tariff charges.

So - my question is - what right does a merchant have to demand I ship to a random third country (i.e. not UK / Not China). Nothing is mentioned in the return policy or anything else. In fact they do not provide a registered address at all- which in itself in in breach of The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002.

This is from their Terms of Service which states they are bound by UK law:

 "SECTION 18 - GOVERNING LAW

These Terms of Service and any separate agreements whereby we provide you Services shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of United Kingdom."

I'm going through the chargeback process with Monzo - but I have to say Monzo are not being very helpful, they keep demanding evidence that I have returned the items. I'd like them to explain why I need to return defective goods at my own expense.

Any help gratefully received!

Best regards,

Will

powerful_Rogue

BilboBarr said:

Hi all,

I'd just like to check what my options are, I've made the mistake of ordering goods and paying by debit card and not credit card. I was sooo angry with myself when I realised. Anyway!

I purchase some frying pans from Shop.novara.com and they were shipped from China, which was fine, but they arrived with defects.  I sent images and went through all the rest of the return process but they eventually did two things:

1. They provided a return address in the USA
2. They refused to refund shipping charges.

I'm 100% sure that where the goods are defective they will need to cover the return costs, so I'm fine with that, but I'm not paying my own money to have them bypass US tariff charges.

So - my question is - what right does a merchant have to demand I ship to a random third country (i.e. not UK / Not China). Nothing is mentioned in the return policy or anything else. In fact they do not provide a registered address at all- which in itself in in breach of The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002.

This is from their Terms of Service which states they are bound by UK law:

 "SECTION 18 - GOVERNING LAW

These Terms of Service and any separate agreements whereby we provide you Services shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of United Kingdom."

I'm going through the chargeback process with Monzo - but I have to say Monzo are not being very helpful, they keep demanding evidence that I have returned the items. I'd like them to explain why I need to return defective goods at my own expense.

Any help gratefully received!

Best regards,

Will

That's the terms of chargeback. It's totally seperate to the law. 

Reviews of that website are very poor. Looks like it's based out of California.

user1977

I can't see anything on their website suggesting where they're based, so I think you'll be struggling even to work out what laws apply. I would guess they're in China, which means you don't have much hope of enforcing anything anyway.

BilboBarr

I know it's an uphill struggle, but I made the purchase using Shop-pay (Shopify on the merchany side) so I have avenues to explore with disputes from them, in addition to the chargeback through Monzo / Mastercard.

It's more of a general question on what a merchant can demand as a return address if they do not specifiy anything up front.

Thanks,

Will

flaneurs_lobster

BilboBarr said:

This is from their Terms of Service which states they are bound by UK law:

 "SECTION 18 - GOVERNING LAW

These Terms of Service and any separate agreements whereby we provide you Services shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of United Kingdom."

There's no such thing (legally) as "the laws of the United Kingdom", the devolved constituents have their own laws, Hence the Laws of England & Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland. Meaningless anyway since the website owners are not intending to be "bound" by any laws at all.

user1977

BilboBarr said:

It's more of a general question on what a merchant can demand as a return address if they do not specify anything up front.

That depends on what laws apply!

born_again

Chargeback is a card regulation, with each (Visa, Mastercard & Amex) set themselves. They are designed to be fair to both parties.
You consumer rights etc are nothing to do with them & do not mirror them either.

Chargebacks only cover the amount of the transaction, not any extra costs & also require the item to be returned to supplier (unless you have proof that they will not take back) 

In many ways going back to US is better than China, as cheaper & China is renowned for items never getting to retailer (Customs?)

In what way do you think a pan is  "the goods are defective"

BilboBarr

Hi,

I appreciate that, however, it's the only mention of any country of operation, at least for a chargeback request if they state they are bound by UK law then surely that means they are bound by The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002.

In turn - that would mean that not providing a registered address is a breach of 6(b) which requires

6(b) the geographic address of the service provider must be given;

Still - going back to the question, regardless of just how shoddy this site is, what right does a merchant have to demand goods are returned to an address outside of where you ordered the goods and where they were shipped from, unless this was stated up front?

BilboBarr

born_again said:

Chargeback is a card regulation, with each (Visa, Mastercard & Amex) set themselves. They are designed to be fair to both parties.
You consumer rights etc are nothing to do with them & do not mirror them either.

Chargebacks only cover the amount of the transaction, not any extra costs & also require the item to be returned to supplier (unless you have proof that they will not take back) 

In many ways going back to US is better than China, as cheaper & China is renowned for items never getting to retailer (Customs?)

In what way do you think a pan is  "the goods are defective"

Dents and scratches - I Requested a refund - they immediately shipped a replacement. I pointed out I was entitled to a refund as they were defective.  The fact they sent replacement pans I take to be admission that they were defective.  I refused the replacement as instructed to do by the merchant.

Then they requested I ship the original defective pans to the US at my cost. Hence the chargeback request and this discussion  

Woodstok2000

BilboBarr said:

Hi,

I appreciate that, however, it's the only mention of any country of operation, at least for a chargeback request if they state they are bound by UK law then surely that means they are bound by The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002.

In turn - that would mean that not providing a registered address is a breach of 6(b) which requires

6(b) the geographic address of the service provider must be given;

Still - going back to the question, regardless of just how shoddy this site is, what right does a merchant have to demand goods are returned to an address outside of where you ordered the goods and where they were shipped from, unless this was stated up front?

As they're a Chinese drop-shipping company they can do whatever they want. No one is going to take any action against them.

born_again

They are entitled to the goods back before refunding (Even under consumer rights) so for a refund you are going to have to comply.

 bound by The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002. (which means nothing to chargeback)

In turn - that would mean that not providing a registered address is a breach of 6(b) which requires

6(b) the geographic address of the service provider must be given;

Did you check that the information was there?

If so you are looking at taking the company to court in whatever location they are based.