DF Capital

mills112

poseidon1 said:

mills112 said:

masonic said:

I've been asked for general details from a few different financial institutions, but never for documents supporting my answers.

Unless the rate was considerably better than is available elsewhere I think I'd be invoking the cooling off process rather than posting original / certified documents (especially as it isn't clear how many bank statements they'd require as evidence of 20 years worth of earnings, for example). Sourcing the original documents would likely be quite costly given most things are paper-free these days, including my payslips.

I've used DF Capital in the past, but never for a sum of more than £5k per account.

do you think i can ask them to return my money?

I certainly would. Those questions are extremely invasive.

I deposited  significantly higher amount than £120k with Chase bank this year with absolutely no questions asked.

When I moved part of this to Oxbury Bank, that bank did ask me where the monies came from, but were happy to accept a copy of the Chase Bank statement withdrawal as verification of source.  

Generally I would not proceed with any bank whose AML were as ridiculous as DF Capital, I suspect neither would you had you known in advance what to expect.

it's the sort of thing you may put up with if it was a property purchase but not if you are just opening a savings account where the money comes from your bank.  it isn't as if i had given them a bag with £10 notes! (angry emoticon) and even if they did need to check on the source of the funds, it needs to be appropriate. i feel this is far too excessive for 120k savings that comes from a UK current account.

dunstonh

eskbanker said:

mills112 said:

masonic said:

I've been asked for general details from a few different financial institutions, but never for documents supporting my answers.

Unless the rate was considerably better than is available elsewhere I think I'd be invoking the cooling off process rather than posting original / certified documents (especially as it isn't clear how many bank statements they'd require as evidence of 20 years worth of earnings, for example). Sourcing the original documents would likely be quite costly given most things are paper-free these days, including my payslips.

I've used DF Capital in the past, but never for a sum of more than £5k per account.

do you think i can ask them to return my money?

How recently did you open the account?

• Can I cancel my account if I change my mind?

  Yes but only within the first 14 calendar days of opening the account. Please instruct us to close the account by sending a secure message through your online account or by calling us on 0330 094 0162.

https://www.dfcapital.bank/help/

Alternatively, if you simply refuse to answer their questions, what are they going to do about it?

Only thing I would say to that is that activating cancellation rights on money that has already been sent to them can trigger enhanced AML checks and freezing of the return until they are satisfied that the new AML requirements have been met.

this is why i always ask people about banks before investing with them as you can get mickey mouse banks like these who will not be worth the hassle.

There will always be differences in the interpretation of the regs.  Some of which may be regulatory-driven in certain firms.  e.g. where the FCA have found firms to be weak on AML, they put in place requirements for the next x years (or a point where the FCA are satisfied) that goes above and beyond the normal requirements.

However, everyone is going to have to get used to the new AML directive requirements.    A number of the investment platforms and providers I deal with already moved to the new requirements earlier in the year but many of those that had yet to move have done so in the last few weeks.

mills112

update - well they seem to be very good at responding to secure messages as although it says it will take them 5 days to respond to a secure message in their automated pop up, they came back to me within an hour to say that the money will be sent back to my nominated account and that it should be there by the end of today.

so let's see if it does come back! (annoyed emoticon)

i wonder if it is the 100k mark that has triggered the enhanced AML check as before now, I only put in 85k in any savings bond because of the FSCS protection limit.

mills112

dunstonh said:

eskbanker said:

mills112 said:

masonic said:

I've been asked for general details from a few different financial institutions, but never for documents supporting my answers.

Unless the rate was considerably better than is available elsewhere I think I'd be invoking the cooling off process rather than posting original / certified documents (especially as it isn't clear how many bank statements they'd require as evidence of 20 years worth of earnings, for example). Sourcing the original documents would likely be quite costly given most things are paper-free these days, including my payslips.

I've used DF Capital in the past, but never for a sum of more than £5k per account.

do you think i can ask them to return my money?

How recently did you open the account?

• Can I cancel my account if I change my mind?

  Yes but only within the first 14 calendar days of opening the account. Please instruct us to close the account by sending a secure message through your online account or by calling us on 0330 094 0162.

https://www.dfcapital.bank/help/

Alternatively, if you simply refuse to answer their questions, what are they going to do about it?

Only thing I would say to that is that activating cancellation rights on money that has already been sent to them can trigger enhanced AML checks and freezing of the return until they are satisfied that the new AML requirements have been met.

this is why i always ask people about banks before investing with them as you can get mickey mouse banks like these who will not be worth the hassle.

There will always be differences in the interpretation of the regs.  Some of which may be regulatory-driven in certain firms.  e.g. where the FCA have found firms to be weak on AML, they put in place requirements for the next x years (or a point where the FCA are satisfied) that goes above and beyond the normal requirements.

However, everyone is going to have to get used to the new AML directive requirements.    A number of the investment platforms and providers I deal with already moved to the new requirements earlier in the year but many of those that had yet to move have done so in the last few weeks.

it obviously show that they are a small bank and probably don't receive large deposits so this is triggering checks.  for the larger banks, where they get large deposits all the time, 120k is small potato so they aren't going to do an all out AML check for that amount of deposit where the investor is put under scrutiny, not just for the deposit but their entire wealth! (annoyed emoticon)

eskbanker

mills112 said:

dunstonh said:

eskbanker said:

mills112 said:

masonic said:

I've been asked for general details from a few different financial institutions, but never for documents supporting my answers.

Unless the rate was considerably better than is available elsewhere I think I'd be invoking the cooling off process rather than posting original / certified documents (especially as it isn't clear how many bank statements they'd require as evidence of 20 years worth of earnings, for example). Sourcing the original documents would likely be quite costly given most things are paper-free these days, including my payslips.

I've used DF Capital in the past, but never for a sum of more than £5k per account.

do you think i can ask them to return my money?

How recently did you open the account?

• Can I cancel my account if I change my mind?

  Yes but only within the first 14 calendar days of opening the account. Please instruct us to close the account by sending a secure message through your online account or by calling us on 0330 094 0162.

https://www.dfcapital.bank/help/

Alternatively, if you simply refuse to answer their questions, what are they going to do about it?

Only thing I would say to that is that activating cancellation rights on money that has already been sent to them can trigger enhanced AML checks and freezing of the return until they are satisfied that the new AML requirements have been met.

this is why i always ask people about banks before investing with them as you can get mickey mouse banks like these who will not be worth the hassle.

There will always be differences in the interpretation of the regs.  Some of which may be regulatory-driven in certain firms.  e.g. where the FCA have found firms to be weak on AML, they put in place requirements for the next x years (or a point where the FCA are satisfied) that goes above and beyond the normal requirements.

However, everyone is going to have to get used to the new AML directive requirements.    A number of the investment platforms and providers I deal with already moved to the new requirements earlier in the year but many of those that had yet to move have done so in the last few weeks.

it obviously show that they are a small bank and probably don't receive large deposits so this is triggering checks.  for the larger banks, where they get large deposits all the time, 120k is small potato so they aren't going to do an all out ALM check for that amount of deposit where the investor is put under scrutiny, not just for the deposit but their entire wealth! (annoyed emoticon)

While it's plausible that the size of the deposit is unusual for a small bank, it's far from obvious that this is why the checks happened, i.e. that's a speculative conclusion rather than one supported by evidence.

dunstonh

i wonder if it is the 100k mark that has triggered the enhanced ALM check as before now, I only put in 85k in any savings bond because of the FSCS protection limit.

The FSCS limit change has no impact on the EU AML directives.

The Law Society updated its guide last month with the latest requirements.  It is quite a good guide as its written for the benefit of solicitors who don't have the compliance teams like banks/investment firms.  So, its written in language that is easlier to follow:

Source of funds checks | The Law Society

mills112

eskbanker said:

mills112 said:

dunstonh said:

eskbanker said:

mills112 said:

masonic said:

I've been asked for general details from a few different financial institutions, but never for documents supporting my answers.

Unless the rate was considerably better than is available elsewhere I think I'd be invoking the cooling off process rather than posting original / certified documents (especially as it isn't clear how many bank statements they'd require as evidence of 20 years worth of earnings, for example). Sourcing the original documents would likely be quite costly given most things are paper-free these days, including my payslips.

I've used DF Capital in the past, but never for a sum of more than £5k per account.

do you think i can ask them to return my money?

How recently did you open the account?

• Can I cancel my account if I change my mind?

  Yes but only within the first 14 calendar days of opening the account. Please instruct us to close the account by sending a secure message through your online account or by calling us on 0330 094 0162.

https://www.dfcapital.bank/help/

Alternatively, if you simply refuse to answer their questions, what are they going to do about it?

Only thing I would say to that is that activating cancellation rights on money that has already been sent to them can trigger enhanced AML checks and freezing of the return until they are satisfied that the new AML requirements have been met.

this is why i always ask people about banks before investing with them as you can get mickey mouse banks like these who will not be worth the hassle.

There will always be differences in the interpretation of the regs.  Some of which may be regulatory-driven in certain firms.  e.g. where the FCA have found firms to be weak on AML, they put in place requirements for the next x years (or a point where the FCA are satisfied) that goes above and beyond the normal requirements.

However, everyone is going to have to get used to the new AML directive requirements.    A number of the investment platforms and providers I deal with already moved to the new requirements earlier in the year but many of those that had yet to move have done so in the last few weeks.

it obviously show that they are a small bank and probably don't receive large deposits so this is triggering checks.  for the larger banks, where they get large deposits all the time, 120k is small potato so they aren't going to do an all out ALM check for that amount of deposit where the investor is put under scrutiny, not just for the deposit but their entire wealth! (annoyed emoticon)

While it's plausible that the size of the deposit is unusual for a small bank, it's far from obvious that this is why the checks happened, i.e. that's a speculative conclusion rather than one supported by evidence.

yes, it is inference, but not an unreasonable one.  i find small institutions who don't receive large deposits as a normal day to day process will make more mountain out of a mole hill because they aren't familiar with how to check for money laundering so the checks put in place is the same whether you put in 50k or 1m.  whereas institutions that are more familiar with clients that put in large credits will have checks in place that will reflect the amount of risk involved, so sure check more securely if the deposit is 1m but not to this extent for 120k, which really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.

masonic

We'll find out in due course if this is an isolated case or others receive similar requests for smaller sums.

mills112

dunstonh said:

i wonder if it is the 100k mark that has triggered the enhanced ALM check as before now, I only put in 85k in any savings bond because of the FSCS protection limit.

The FSCS limit change has no impact on the EU AML directives.

The Law Society updated its guide last month with the latest requirements.  It is quite a good guide as its written for the benefit of solicitors who don't have the compliance teams like banks/investment firms.  So, its written in language that is easlier to follow:

Source of funds checks | The Law Society

i know that amounts over a certain X will trigger questions, so it may be the 100k that trigger questions.  i know that AML is not related to the FSCS limit, i was saying that it is the increase in the FSCS limit that made me put more than 100k into an account and so the AML has been triggered, where I never had any issue before.

eskbanker

mills112 said:

i know that amounts over a certain X will trigger questions, so it may be the 100k that trigger questions.  i know that AML is not related to the FSCS limit, i was saying that it is the increase in the FSCS limit that made me put more than 100k into an account and so the AML has been triggered, where I never had any issue before.

That still only demonstrates correlation, rather than causation, i.e. AML for a transaction over £100K doesn't imply that it's because it exceeded £100K....