Excel parking fines at the property I live in

Silva_surferr

I live in an apartment building that has underground gated carpark. I have a permit to park there as part of my rent. The permit slid off my dashboard and I didn’t drive for 2 days and got 2 fines. I have previously proven to them that I have a valid permit but they don’t care as it wasn’t displayed. I’ve already sent an appeal as the keeper with the similar template from the pinned post. What can I expect? Do I have a chance to win court?

Gr1pr

Definitely not fines,  just invoices from Excel Parking 

Check the terms and conditions of your lease or rental agreement 

You can expect rejection

To win in court requires them to issue a Money Claim via the MCOL system,  pay the fee,  jump through hoops, pay a hearing fee and convince the judge on legal grounds and on signage etc

You would defend based on your lease or rental agreement etc

A judge would decide the outcome 

Everyone has a chance,  but there is not enough information about your case,  but residential cases are complicated,  no simple answers,  definitely no one liner yes or no replies 

Half_way

Ypu need yo check your rental/lease to see what it says about parking, forget the permit or any signage, what dies your rental say?

Coupon-mad

Silva_surferr said:

I live in an apartment building that has underground gated carpark. I have a permit to park there as part of my rent. The permit slid off my dashboard and I didn’t drive for 2 days and got 2 fines. I have previously proven to them that I have a valid permit but they don’t care as it wasn’t displayed. I’ve already sent an appeal as the keeper with the similar template from the pinned post. What can I expect? Do I have a chance to win court?

Certainly. You will never pay this.

But wow, this is terrible; I'd never live where Excel are on site.

I feel for you. Trapped by scammers at your own home, with a permit scheme no resident needs. This is no place for car drivers. Totally on your side but regulars here would have walked out on first viewing the place (without looking at the flat) due to the sight of the Excel signage.

Private parking firms with pointless 'permit schemes' blight whole estates as well as high street retail. Whole residential sites become no-go areas for visitors, taxis, visiting nurses, cleaners and delivery drivers.

This is no place to park a vehicle. Permit schemes are not needed at private land residential sites ... and you and your visitors are (and always will be) the targets. Excel make no money unless they invoice people. Did you know that? They actively seek to penalise residents.

Le_Kirk

Silva_surferr said:

I live in an apartment building that has underground gated car park. 

Were Excel already in place when you moved in?  If not, how and when was the consultation and ballot conducted in line with the Landlord and Tenant Act?  If they were already there, can you discuss with other renters/tenants/leaseholders when the ballot took place?

eddddy

Le_Kirk said:

Were Excel already in place when you moved in?  If not, how and when was the consultation and ballot conducted in line with the Landlord and Tenant Act?  If they were already there, can you discuss with other renters/tenants/leaseholders when the ballot took place?

It sounds like these questions are based on a misunderstanding of Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. 

See: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/37

Unfortunately, the questions above are misguided on many levels. 

A more correct question might be something like...

• "Does the apartment's lease (or any lease variations) allow the freeholder or management company to enforce parking in the way they are doing?"

But it sounds like you are a sub-tenant (i.e. you are renting), so you are not party to the apartment's lease anyway - so that's pretty much irrelevant to you.

So you should probably start by referring to your AST (i.e. your agreement with your landlord) to see what rights you have to park, etc.

(But I guess it's possible that your AST could refer to the lease - e.g. the AST says words to the effect of "You have the same parking rights as described in the landlord's lease". In that case,  you would probably need to read the lease to check what they are.)



But don't waste time asking about a 'ballot' taking place - that would just become an irrelevant distraction.




Edit to add...

Just to be clear... I'm only commenting on the 'Landlord and Tenant Act' aspect. I'm sure others can comment on the many other aspects of your case.

Car1980

But it sounds like you are a sub-tenant (i.e. you are renting), so you are not party to the apartment's lease anyway - so that's pretty much irrelevant to you.

I disagree with that. If the property's lease includes specific rights over the space (and that's an if) there is no mechanism to oblige the lessee or any of theirs agents to display rights concurred in the lease to a third party in order to avoid financial penalty.

It's not uncommon for tenants to be in breach of the lease (and the landlord by proxy) through things like unsocial behaviour.

The AST is pretty irrelevant, especially considering they are usually nothing more than a standard internet template. If the AST says you can park in the space with no restrictions, but the lease makes no mention of the space and it doesn't "come" with the flat then the landlord is transferring rights he does not have.

But on the flipside, if the tenancy agreement says you must display a permit but the lease says you don't, then you'd have to talk to the landlord to get that altered, because arguably such a term could have quiet enjoyment implications.

At the end of the day, the lease is king. Find out what it says by getting hold of a copy from the landlord or another owner-occupier in the same development. You'd cannot begin to know where you stand without reading that first.

eddddy

Car1980 said:

But it sounds like you are a sub-tenant (i.e. you are renting), so you are not party to the apartment's lease anyway - so that's pretty much irrelevant to you.

I disagree with that. 

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. 

And I agree with a lot of what you say.

Car1980 said:

The AST is pretty irrelevant, especially considering they are usually nothing more than a standard internet template. If the AST says you can park in the space with no restrictions, but the lease makes no mention of the space and it doesn't "come" with the flat then the landlord is transferring rights he does not have.

The AST isn't irrelevant to the OP, assuming the OP is a sub-tenant - the AST is King.

If a landlord is 'stupid' enough to give a tenant rights that the landlord doesn't have, that's an argument between the tenant and their landlord.

For example, if the OP's AST says:

• You can park in the car park
• You can have exclusive use of the garden
• You can use the swimming pool next door

... but the landlord doesn't have the right to give those rights to the tenant - then the tenant's argument is not with the car park owner, or the garden owner, or the swimming pool owner.  The tenant's argument is with their landlord.

 

Car1980 said:

At the end of the day, the lease is king. Find out what it says by getting hold of a copy from the landlord or another owner-occupier in the same development. You'd cannot begin to know where you stand without reading that first.

For the reasons I've explained above, for the OP, the AST is king.

(For the OP's landlord, the lease is king.)

The OP should take up any issues with the landlord based on their AST.  It's then up to the landlord to take it up with the freeholder or management company, if the landlord thinks their rights under the lease are being breached.