care support fees

activities

For 18 months I have been trying to get my 90 year old mum into a care home but adult social care deem she can be supported at home. She has been safe guarded by the ambulance service twice following falls been in hospital over Christmas three years running, recently left all the hobs on at home with covers and been the subject of phone scam.  The cost of the monthly care visits are £690 per month which finance dept , having completed their own assessment deem she can pay. I have refused to pay the fees and she has a current debt of £5000. Her total monthly income is £2.662.98 and her outgoing bills amount to £1165.88 without treats buying gifts etc. In the outgoing fees my brother claims £300 as he frequently has to leave work when she falls, has to take her to hospital appointments, as she now has breast cancer, and does her shopping and general runaround. This leaves her with a balance of £565.88. Finance dept state the £300 my brother takes cannot be included in outcome. I argued that if he didn't take her she would have to go to hospital/gp appointments by taxi, and need an escort, or not attend. They insist it be added to her residue income making a balance of £865.88. They have now demanded two direct debits be set up one for £160 to pay off the debt  which they have threatened me with debt agency, PLUS £670 .for care support fees per month. total £830. Leaving her with £35.00 per month. She has £3500 in her account. At their rate she will be penniless in 3 months. She lives in a privately rented flat. I have asked for a CHC assessment social services say she doesn't fit the criteria. ! breast cancer, one kidney, hole in lung, arthritis, . Can I continue to reuse to pay and can I take social services to court. Are they likely to send bailiffs in.? I have been in contact with her MP shocking way to treat a 90 year old

Keep_pedalling

activities said:

For 18 months I have been trying to get my 90 year old mum into a care home but adult social care deem she can be supported at home. She has been safe guarded by the ambulance service twice following falls been in hospital over Christmas three years running, recently left all the hobs on at home with covers and been the subject of phone scam.  

The cost of the monthly care visits are £690 per month which finance dept , having completed their own assessment deem she can pay. I have refused to pay the fees and she has a current debt of £5000. Her total monthly income is £2.662.98 and her outgoing bills amount to £1165.88 without treats buying gifts etc. In the outgoing fees my brother claims £300 as he frequently has to leave work when she falls, has to take her to hospital appointments, as she now has breast cancer, and does her shopping and general runaround. 

This leaves her with a balance of £565.88. Finance dept state the £300 my brother takes cannot be included in outcome. I argued that if he didn't take her she would have to go to hospital/gp appointments by taxi, and need an escort, or not attend. They insist it be added to her residue income making a balance of £865.88. They have now demanded two direct debits be set up one for £160 to pay off the debt  which they have threatened me with debt agency, PLUS £670 .for care support fees per month. total £830. Leaving her with £35.00 per month. 

She has £3500 in her account. At their rate she will be penniless in 3 months. She lives in a privately rented flat. I have asked for a CHC assessment social services say she doesn't fit the criteria. ! breast cancer, one kidney, hole in lung, arthritis, . Can I continue to reuse to pay and can I take social services to court. Are they likely to send bailiffs in.? I have been in contact with her MP shocking way to treat a 90 year old

From experience with my mother a few years ago obtaining residential care from a cash strapped LA requires the person to be in a very bad way, and they will always opt for home visits. I am not surprised they will not accept the £300 per month going to your brother it does seem excessive. 

Does she really only have £3500 in savings? it seems a very low amount for someone of her age with that level of income and significantly lower expenditure (and least prior to having to meet care costs).

Is she claiming attendance allowance? Do you have power of attorney for her. 

activities

she has attendance allowance. My brother takes less actually but he loses a day a moth at mo with call outs hospital visits so it is to compensate him. I have POA. she has never owned her own home and the £3500 is her savings effectively

KxMx

Why have you refused to pay the fees and landed your mother with a debt? 

Payment of care fees would still leave her with a monthly income of nearly £2000.

As POA you are legally obliged to act in her best interests and to her benefit.

Running up a debt by refusing to pay a reasonable bill goes against this. 

I suggest you start paying the fees & repaying the debt, then look at ways to lower her other outgoings. There are many sections of the forum that can help with this. 

tetrarch

Do you have POA?

If not and your Mother is competent, then get it straight away

This big question is what does your Mum want and is it feasible?

Regards

Tet

Keep_pedalling

activities said:

she has attendance allowance. My brother takes less actually but he loses a day a moth at mo with call outs hospital visits so it is to compensate him. I have POA. she has never owned her own home and the £3500 is her savings effectively

What dd you mean by effectively? Has she been giving away much of her excess income in the past? £3500 is astonishing low level of savings for someone with that level of excess income and I think if I was doing a financial assessment I would be very suspicious that deprivation of assets may have occured.

activities

KXMX you are mistaken. With her out going bills covered  she is left with 568 per month

activities

i have POA she has dementia

born_again

activities said:

i have POA she has dementia

Have you looked at placing in a care home yourself?

KxMx

Given the figures you quoted, she would have after the care bill is paid a monthly income of £1932 to pay all her other outgoings. 

Income £2662
Care bill £690

You can go through all her outgoings to see where reductions can be made, switching utility suppliers, shopping around for food/brands bought, reviewing telephone, tv, Internet packages, asking for a Housing Benefit/CT recalculation to include her care costs/AA or making a new application if she's been turned down due to income previously. 

Also consider whether a falls alarm service (that actually attends because I know not all do), using Hospital Transport, might be cheaper than giving your brother £300 a month, he could still do GP appointments etc but wouldn't require so much reimbursement. 

Has your brother had an assessment of his needs as a carer?

https://www.nhs.uk/social-care-and-support/support-and-benefits-for-carers/carer-assessments/

It's your choice whether you answer questions but I'm struggling to see a good reason why you haven't been paying the assessed care costs and have now run up a £5000 debt. 

elsien

Potentially refusing to pay fees could lead to her care being withdrawn. Or you reported to the OPG for not acting in her best interests. 

Ambulance services often raise safeguards concerns but on investigation these may not be upheld, so what were the outcomes?