Santander - Fraud Reimbursement

dumpster_fire2025

Woodstok2000 said:

dumpster_fire2025 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

This isn't an APP scam though. There isn't any impersonation here (at least as far as the OPs post goes.) The money appears to have gone straight into the account of the business that it should have done, for the purpose that it was intended for. It's just that the business itself "may" have been fundamentally dishonest (or it could have just gone bump.)

That's not covered by the regs for APP scams.

We don't know enough to confirm that,but it doesn't change the fact that banks are responsible for scams involving bank transfers, in contrast to the original response I replied to.

No, you're wrong. Banks only need to reimburse for APP scams. If someone offers something on Gumtree and you bank transfer the cash and the thing doesn't turn up, it's not covered.

If you pay money to a company and they fold without ever supplying it, you're not covered.

The ONLY thing that banks need to cover is APP fraud where someone impersonates a genuine company in order to convince the victim to send money to the scammer.

If I'm wrong, please supply the legislation or FCA guidance that states that banks are responsible for refunding customers in all cases where they have been ripped off via a bank transfer.

eskbanker

akashi said:

Will the FOS be able to find out if Santander have reimbursed other customers who were victims of the same fraud? If yes, then should this set a precedent?

Even if they could, I don't believe that FOS would go looking for such information, and, as above, in itself it wouldn't necessarily set a precedent, especially if the circumstances weren't identical, so their approach would be to review how the bank dealt with your complaint, rather than comparing and contrasting with how it dealt with others, i.e. your argument needs to stand on its own merit.

Woodstok2000

dumpster_fire2025 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

dumpster_fire2025 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

This isn't an APP scam though. There isn't any impersonation here (at least as far as the OPs post goes.) The money appears to have gone straight into the account of the business that it should have done, for the purpose that it was intended for. It's just that the business itself "may" have been fundamentally dishonest (or it could have just gone bump.)

That's not covered by the regs for APP scams.

We don't know enough to confirm that,but it doesn't change the fact that banks are responsible for scams involving bank transfers, in contrast to the original response I replied to.

No, you're wrong. Banks only need to reimburse for APP scams. If someone offers something on Gumtree and you bank transfer the cash and the thing doesn't turn up, it's not covered.

If you pay money to a company and they fold without ever supplying it, you're not covered.

The ONLY thing that banks need to cover is APP fraud where someone impersonates a genuine company in order to convince the victim to send money to the scammer.

If I'm wrong, please supply the legislation or FCA guidance that states that banks are responsible for refunding customers in all cases where they have been ripped off via a bank transfer.

Look at my original post, you and I are absolutely in agreement. 

marcia_

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

 Not rubbish at all. This isn't a APP Scam it's a business failure. 

Woodstok2000

marcia_ said:

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

 Not rubbish at all. This isn't a APP Scam it's a business failure. 

You said:

"As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable."

That is absolute rubbish. Bank liability has nothing to do with the method of payment, but everything to do with who the payment went to.  APP scams involve bank transfers and are entirely the responsibility of the bank

Woodstok2000

akashi said:

The company was called YK Tours Ltd.

I paid via bank transfer as this was the only payment option available.

Unfortunately then your bank is correct - this is an insolvency, not an APP scam and you will likely struggle to get your money back. No harm in trying the FOS though, see what they say

marcia_

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

 Not rubbish at all. This isn't a APP Scam it's a business failure. 

You said:

"As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable."

That is absolute rubbish. Bank liability has nothing to do with the method of payment, but everything to do with who the payment went to.  APP scams involve bank transfers and are entirely the responsibility of the bank

 Which is true. Csnt use a chargeback or s75 and its not app 🙄🤣

eskbanker

marcia_ said:
This isn't a APP Scam it's a business failure. 

Woodstok2000 said:
this is an insolvency, not an APP scam

We don't know the exact circumstances from what's been shared thus far, and my earlier point was that it could be both, i.e. if a legitimate business struggles to honour its commitments then that's one thing, but if, later on, it (or its director) continues to take money from punters in the full knowledge that there won't be anything supplied then that's fraudulent.

Whether that fraud is enough to qualify for reimbursement under the APP provisions is perhaps worth examining in more detail, but if there wasn't any fraud at all then it would seem unlikely that the police would be treating it as a serious crime and issuing an arrest warrant.

sheramber

https://5pillarsuk.com/2025/04/07/muslim-travel-agency-yk-tours-embroiled-in-umrah-scandal/

Muslim travel agency YK Tours has become embroiled in a scandal after customers claimed their money was taken without a service being provided amid ongoing legal battles between the company’s leadership.

The London-based travel agents target their business at UK Muslims who seek halal holidays and Islamic travel packages, including Umrah.

However, 5Pillars understands that the company has been experiencing financial difficulties and has over the course of several months failed to provide its services, cancelling trips last minute and failing to issue refunds to angry customers.

According to information provided to 5Pillars, the total amount of money owed in compensation for failed or cancelled trips could be as high as £1.6 million.

…………

Chief_of_Staffy

marcia_ said:

Woodstok2000 said:

marcia_ said:

akashi said:

In July 2025, I made a bank transfer of £4,000 to a travel agency for flight tickets. 

The agency had an office which I was able to visit and I was provided with an invoice.

I never received the tickets and the office was closed some weeks later. 

I later found out this was a scam and hundreds of people were victims of fraud like myself.

I raised a claim with Santander, they rejected the claim and stated this was a civil matter. They said should the director of the travel agency be arrested or prosecuted, they will review the claim again.

I reported the fraud to Action Fraud and was later contacted by the Metropolitan Police. They informed me that close to 800 people have been scammed by this director and they were treating this as a serious crime. They also confirmed there was an arrest warrant on the director. The lead detective told me to raise a claim with Santander as other victims have been reimbursed by Santander to his knowledge.

I contacted Santander again and provided the lead detectives contact details and crime reference number. I also told them they have reimbursed other victims and they said they will review the claim.

Santander have rejected the claim again stating they will only review this if the director is arrested or prosecuted. They have given me the option to complain to the Financial Ombudsman service.

Any thoughts on this? Surely they have set a precedent by reimbursing other customers of the same fraud? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 I'm afraid I think your bank is right. As you paid by transfer rather than a card payment they are not liable. A police officer saying he thinks others have been refunded does not mean they have definitely. 

This is rubbish. Banks are liable for fraudulent bank transfers (Authorised Push Payment, or APP) under PSR regulations unless you've been grossly negligent, and thats a very high bar. It seems your bank are treating this as a legitimate company gone bust rather than a true scam  - what was the business called? 

You can see the reimbursement rules here: https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/app-fraud-reimbursement-protections/

As others have said, escalate your complaint to the FOS (edited typo).

 Not rubbish at all. This isn't a APP Scam it's a business failure. 

It is rubbish. When someone sets up a company, takes almost £2m, then disappears a few months later, with the money yet without providing any service, it's difficult to imagine a clearer case of APP fraud.