Inheritance dependence nightmare

NorthYorkie

Loolah001 said:

NorthYorkie said:

So, there was only one property (C) in father's estate. Properties A and B were both sold and so the girlfriend' life interest in A fails and so does her life interest in the income generated from the letting of B. There is then the question of the sales proceeds of A and B; were these used to purchase C? The will seems to be silent on the use of these proceeds and the girlfriend has not been given any right of occupation of C, so it would seem that C falls into the residue along with all other assets. The girlfriend therefore gets nothing, unless she is also a residuary beneficiary. Is she??

No she is not a beneficiary in the will

Therefore under the terms of the will she gets nothing (unless the remaining beneficiaries decide to give up some of their inheritance in her favour by means of a Deed of Variation). 

RAS

Which is where the Inheritance Act comes in if the partner was financially dependant prior to the death.

She's entitled to live with her daughter of a while if she's distressed or feels pressured by the daughters since discovering the impact of the will.

Is GF an executor? 

gwynlas

She is called girlfriend but sounds to be life partner.

How old is this person and how long was she living with father?

She would probably have a claim re dependency if long term as both properties already sold but she was living with him at time of death.

Loolah001

RAS said:

Which is where the Inheritance Act comes in if the partner was financially dependant prior to the death.

She's entitled to live with her daughter of a while if she's distressed or feels pressured by the daughters since discovering the impact of the will.

Is GF an executor? 

No she is not

Grumpy_chap

The first thing the Executors need to do is to secure the assets of the Estate.  That means the house, items within the house, bank accounts.  

The Executors have a sole responsibility to implement the wishes of the Will as written.  

The Will may be challenged.  There is an indication that this might be the girlfriend.  Whether she can challenge the Will on dependency grounds will depend upon the detail of how intertwined the OP's father and the girlfriend are in terms of shared resource.  

The OP needs suitable professional advice in that regard - it may be that he current Solicitor is not sufficiently knowledgeable on contested Estates to advise fully.

If the potential for the Will to be challenged, and for that challenge to be successful looks likely, then the Executors can discuss the matter with the Beneficiaries and potentially make some arrangement that satisfies the needs of the girlfriend while not devaluing the whole Estate to legal expenses with the end result that no-one gets anything (other than the Lawyers).

poseidon1

OP I am going to quote below your post yesterday at 4.04pm -


''  I am an executor as well as a beneficiary

the will states about a former named house that was sold 5 years ago and a probate solicitor has advised to minimise a claim against his estate by his girlfriend we vary the will and add in the new address "

Putting aside all the additional details you have since shared,  the critical passage above is the probate solicitor advising on the wisdom of  varying the will to minimise a claim against the estate by the girlfriend.

On the assumption that the solicitor has reasonable insight into the girlfriend's ability to make a claim under the Inheritance (Family and dependants) Act 1975, that is what you as a  family are faced with.

Your sister's refusal to engage with the idea of a fair variation to the will to accommodate some benefit to the girlfriend would seem to risk long and drawn out court proceedings to the detriment of the estate assets and therefore you as ultimate beneficiaries.

 Whether your current solicitor is competent to take on what may become a contentious estate matter maybe questionable, but you should  at least check whether they are STEP qualified and have experience of contentious estates. If not, you need to find an appropriately qualified practitioner ASAP. 

 Needless to say these messy matters are best dealt with in a calm non emotive manner. A solicitor experienced in such matters will be invaluable in injecting a degree of dispassionate objectivity.   Your sister, shutting down the conversation helps no one, least of all herself.

Savvy_Sue

Loolah001 said:
The probate solicitor has advised they have never come across the issue of properties sold and new properties bought? I’m lost

IANAL, but this comment seems to indicate a lack of expertise and / or experience on the part of this solicitor. Seem to remember this being covered in the Which Guide to Wills and Probate I used some years ago ...

You definitely need at least a STEP solicitor, and if your sister won't be pragmatic, then it's contentious probate, and you might as well wave goodbye to a speedy resolution and A Lot of your inheritance. 

Bear in mind that you are all grieving, and this includes the girlfriend, you and your sister. Rationality can go out of the window: try not to let that happen. 

Grumpy_chap

Savvy_Sue said:

Loolah001 said:
The probate solicitor has advised they have never come across the issue of properties sold and new properties bought? I’m lost

IANAL, but this comment seems to indicate a lack of expertise and / or experience on the part of this solicitor. Seem to remember this being covered in the Which Guide to Wills and Probate I used some years ago ...

The issue of home sold and new home coming into being must be exceedingly common.

poseidon1 said:

Putting aside all the additional details you have since shared,  the critical passage above is the probate solicitor advising on the wisdom of  varying the will to minimise a claim against the estate by the girlfriend.

It is unclear (to me at least) whether the Probate Solicitor was advising that a claim by the girlfriend would be successful and how to head that off, or merely advising on the possibility of such a claim (and how to head that off).

Potentially, as has been mooted a couple of times now, the Probate Solicitor is not the correct person to advise on the likely success or otherwise of a claim by the girlfriend.

I would imagine much would depend on how intertwined the OP's father and the girlfriend were.  Perhaps the starting point to that would be when and why did the girlfriend move in with her daughter?

Loolah001

Grumpy_chap said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Loolah001 said:
The probate solicitor has advised they have never come across the issue of properties sold and new properties bought? I’m lost

IANAL, but this comment seems to indicate a lack of expertise and / or experience on the part of this solicitor. Seem to remember this being covered in the Which Guide to Wills and Probate I used some years ago ...

The issue of home sold and new home coming into being must be exceedingly common.

poseidon1 said:

Putting aside all the additional details you have since shared,  the critical passage above is the probate solicitor advising on the wisdom of  varying the will to minimise a claim against the estate by the girlfriend.

It is unclear (to me at least) whether the Probate Solicitor was advising that a claim by the girlfriend would be successful and how to head that off, or merely advising on the possibility of such a claim (and how to head that off).

Potentially, as has been mooted a couple of times now, the Probate Solicitor is not the correct person to advise on the likely success or otherwise of a claim by the girlfriend.

I would imagine much would depend on how intertwined the OP's father and the girlfriend were.  Perhaps the starting point to that would be when and why did the girlfriend move in with her daughter?

The solicitor is unsure whether the girlfriend will make a claim and has suggested varying the will to ensure she is unable to make a claim or as you said to head her off.
my dad and the girlfriend were together for 10 years she came to the relationship with nothing, worked for a couple of years and my dad who owned the house outright (house A) decided to retire and sell up and move back closer to family hence why property A and property B were sold and property C eventually bought,
the girlfriend moved back with her daughter 3 days after the funeral and is still there 3 months later ( she didn’t speak to her children for 12 years) no idea why not,

poseidon1

Loolah001 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Loolah001 said:
The probate solicitor has advised they have never come across the issue of properties sold and new properties bought? I’m lost

IANAL, but this comment seems to indicate a lack of expertise and / or experience on the part of this solicitor. Seem to remember this being covered in the Which Guide to Wills and Probate I used some years ago ...

The issue of home sold and new home coming into being must be exceedingly common.

poseidon1 said:

Putting aside all the additional details you have since shared,  the critical passage above is the probate solicitor advising on the wisdom of  varying the will to minimise a claim against the estate by the girlfriend.

It is unclear (to me at least) whether the Probate Solicitor was advising that a claim by the girlfriend would be successful and how to head that off, or merely advising on the possibility of such a claim (and how to head that off).

Potentially, as has been mooted a couple of times now, the Probate Solicitor is not the correct person to advise on the likely success or otherwise of a claim by the girlfriend.

I would imagine much would depend on how intertwined the OP's father and the girlfriend were.  Perhaps the starting point to that would be when and why did the girlfriend move in with her daughter?

The solicitor is unsure whether the girlfriend will make a claim and has suggested varying the will to ensure she is unable to make a claim or as you said to head her off.
my dad and the girlfriend were together for 10 years she came to the relationship with nothing, worked for a couple of years and my dad who owned the house outright (house A) decided to retire and sell up and move back closer to family hence why property A and property B were sold and property C eventually bought,
the girlfriend moved back with her daughter 3 days after the funeral and is still there 3 months later ( she didn’t speak to her children for 12 years) no idea why not,

The girlfriend coming to the relationship with nothing, coupled with your father's original intention to provide her home on his death, would certainly give her ammunition to launch a viable claim under the 1975 Act.

 If she were to approach a solicitor with her story, that is certainly the advice she would receive.

Right now you are at an impass with regard to her likely intentions, but it would certainly be prudent to prepare yourselves to make concessions. A new STEP qualified contentious probate lawyer sounds like your next port of call.