Radiator Swap

shiraz99

I may end up having to get someone in but I'd thought I'd ask for advice first. I want to swap a radiator in an upstairs bedroom from a single to a double, same overall size. Obviously the pipework would need slight adjustment and I will also be changing the valves. The floor can't be taken up.

The problem I've got is you step down  into the room so the pipework is a couple of feet lower than the rest of the upstairs CH pipework so I'll have a problem as it probably won't drain down when I drain the rest of the system. Any ideas? Is this likely to be an issue for a plumber themselves and therefore likely to be costly for me. It was supposed to be a relatively straightforward job but as usual with older properties it rarely goes that way. FYI, it's a combi based system.

sheenas

No really an issue. Drain the system and buy a bucket bag. This is basically a strong waterproof bag. You can drain the system and then put the bucket bag under the valve to catch any water. Just get a cheap one off Amazon 

Rodders53

Buckets, bags, wet vac to suck the water out... IF it's not been plumbed properly:  drain off valves should be fitted at all low points...  is there one in that room?  Caution :  Radiator water is usually filthy black magnetite laden even when properly inhibited water is in circulation.

Same size brand K1 to K2 may fit and reuse the same valves if there's some give in the pipes (and fix new one close to wall).  Saves draining whole system.  But your call if you just want shiny new or are adding a TRV when you have to.  You can get rad valves with drain offs if you find one should have been fitted in that room.

PS don't forget suitable inhibitor when refilling.

plumb1_2

shiraz99 said:

The floor can't be taken up.

But can the floor covering be taken up

WIAWSNB

shiraz99 said:

I may end up having to get someone in but I'd thought I'd ask for advice first. I want to swap a radiator in an upstairs bedroom from a single to a double, same overall size. Obviously the pipework would need slight adjustment and I will also be changing the valves. The floor can't be taken up.

The problem I've got is you step down  into the room so the pipework is a couple of feet lower than the rest of the upstairs CH pipework so I'll have a problem as it probably won't drain down when I drain the rest of the system. Any ideas? Is this likely to be an issue for a plumber themselves and therefore likely to be costly for me. It was supposed to be a relatively straightforward job but as usual with older properties it rarely goes that way. FYI, it's a combi based system.

Hi Shiraz.

Any chance of some photos?

And have you found the exact same rad, but just in double form?

A few years back, I visited an elderly friend when his son was there trying to work out how best to sort the pipework for the new double-sized rad they wanted fitting - the new valve position was an inch or so further out from the wall. 

The usual 'mare - they didn't want to lift the floorboards, and didn't want to drain the system (and nor did I). With their permission, and with valves shut off, I gulped and gently pulled the old rad forwards a bit, so the tails bent that wee bit, pointing toward the new position. There must have been some 'play' available - especially up and down - but this worked. The only physical sign was that the valves now sat at a very slight forwards angle.

So, what type of floor do you have? Do the tails have some play? Can they move up and down? 

If not, then you are almost certainly going to have to fully drain down, get some serious towels laid out to soak up the rest, and drain that low rad into a pan. Then it'll be cut the tails, and add doglegs to suit the new valve position.

If you do this, and you don't already have one, fit a magnetic filter on the return to the boiler.    

shiraz99

plumb1_2 said:

shiraz99 said:

The floor can't be taken up.

But can the floor covering be taken up

It's a laminate floor so I don't want to have to take the entire floor up and floorboards just to swap out one radiator.

shiraz99

Rodders53 said:

Buckets, bags, wet vac to suck the water out... IF it's not been plumbed properly:  drain off valves should be fitted at all low points...  is there one in that room?  Caution :  Radiator water is usually filthy black magnetite laden even when properly inhibited water is in circulation.

Same size brand K1 to K2 may fit and reuse the same valves if there's some give in the pipes (and fix new one close to wall).  Saves draining whole system.  But your call if you just want shiny new or are adding a TRV when you have to.  You can get rad valves with drain offs if you find one should have been fitted in that room.

PS don't forget suitable inhibitor when refilling.

The valves need changing as the lockshield is quite old and has a leak, I can see now see why that wasn't changed when the radiator was last installed as the TRV is much newer. The current rad sits a bit low and could ideally do with raising slightly anyway 

shiraz99

WIAWSNB said:

shiraz99 said:

I may end up having to get someone in but I'd thought I'd ask for advice first. I want to swap a radiator in an upstairs bedroom from a single to a double, same overall size. Obviously the pipework would need slight adjustment and I will also be changing the valves. The floor can't be taken up.

The problem I've got is you step down  into the room so the pipework is a couple of feet lower than the rest of the upstairs CH pipework so I'll have a problem as it probably won't drain down when I drain the rest of the system. Any ideas? Is this likely to be an issue for a plumber themselves and therefore likely to be costly for me. It was supposed to be a relatively straightforward job but as usual with older properties it rarely goes that way. FYI, it's a combi based system.

Hi Shiraz.

Any chance of some photos?

And have you found the exact same rad, but just in double form?

A few years back, I visited an elderly friend when his son was there trying to work out how best to sort the pipework for the new double-sized rad they wanted fitting - the new valve position was an inch or so further out from the wall. 

The usual 'mare - they didn't want to lift the floorboards, and didn't want to drain the system (and nor did I). With their permission, and with valves shut off, I gulped and gently pulled the old rad forwards a bit, so the tails bent that wee bit, pointing toward the new position. There must have been some 'play' available - especially up and down - but this worked. The only physical sign was that the valves now sat at a very slight forwards angle.

So, what type of floor do you have? Do the tails have some play? Can they move up and down? 

If not, then you are almost certainly going to have to fully drain down, get some serious towels laid out to soak up the rest, and drain that low rad into a pan. Then it'll be cut the tails, and add doglegs to suit the new valve position.

If you do this, and you don't already have one, fit a magnetic filter on the return to the boiler.    

Not the exact same, the current is a 300x1500 k1 Stelrad, which is doing nothing much in an otherwise very cold room. I wanted to go to a 450x1400 double as I couldn't source a taller 1500 rad but have since found Ultraheat do a 400x1500 which should fit the width but with some minor adjustment.

The flooring, as mentioned, is laminate so could do without taking it all up but there may be some upward/downward play in the pipes.