Large Estate - DIY Probate

pcgtron

Hi all. 

Very early into the probate process after a family members death, but already, the Solicitors that I was thinking of using as the sole Executor are being very slow to even get back to me with a simple query. I haven't yet signed the forms appointing them to help with this. 

I am seriously considering going through the probate process on my own, without using the Solicitors. I need to make a decision this weekend. 

The estate is a large one, worth approx 2 Million, with 2 properties. I am an educated, intelligent person, but I haven't done this before. Reading everything I can, whilst a lot of what I'd call donkey work, it actually seems quite straightforward. We are a small close family, with no conflict. There is a Will with very clear instructions for distribution of assets. I am also a Sole Trader, who fills in his own tax returns, so I am familiar with this process as well. My only worry is the HMRC IHT form, but I'm sure with some reading, I can manage this. 

Any major pitfalls anyone can think of that would suggest I should use a Solicitor for this, or can you DIY the process youself?

jmr95

My condolences for your loss. 

I shared my recent DIY experience here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6634438/diy-estate-handling-my-recent-experience-england#latest

I didn't find it particularly difficult, just laborious. As you say, plenty of donkey work. Albeit I found it quite cathartic. 

Your estate is larger and presumably you will have taxes but if you already have a good handle of the assets and a clear will it's certainly a step in the right direction - ultimately the forms are the same wether you pay the tax or not but some aspects make it more complicated like land, farms, expensive jewellery etc. If you detail a bit more of the contents and anything that strikes you as potentially more complicated then perhaps you'll get a clearer answer.

One thing to call out though is being an executor is not the same as "getting probate"

Probate is just part of that process albeit it often gets used as the overall term. 

Personally I had no desire to use a solicitor to do that for me. I work at a fast pace and they don't, but also I didn't have anything complicated 

Best of luck with the process. This forum is very helpful 

Keep_pedalling

Assuming you are the named executor I would strongly recommend that you DIY this, not only will it save money but solicitors tend to add significant delays to the whole process. You should obtain professional (RICS) valuations for the properties but you would seem more than capable of dealing with administering this yourself.

Of the £2M how much is tied up in the two properties? The first issue that you may be facing is paying the IHT within 6 months of the death if the bulk of the estate is tied up in those properties, but you will have the option of paying by instalments. 

RainydaySW

Ours is a smaller estate and only one property but we are managing to fill in the forms on our own so far with a lot of reference to previous threads on this very helpful forum and also phoning the IHT helpline. Generally staff there are supportive, knowledgeable and so far have been able to answer our questions - once you get through! Even using a solicitor, you will have to source the information which will be the most time consuming element (especially IHT 403 having to provide 7 years of income & expenditure). We are going to see a tax accountant next week with a view to using them just to check our submission - this was booked in a week or so ago, and actually now I think we might not even need this. 

RAS

You'll have a ballpark figure for the IHT liability? If so, can you access enough cash to make the down-payment within 6 months?

Many banks will pay HMRC direct and others will release up to £50k to executors on sight of the will and ID.

And it doesn't have to be completely either/or. If you DIY and come across something that require specific advice, then you can seek legal advice from a lawyer or tax specialist and charge the fee to the estate.

If you hire a solicitor from the get go, expect the whole process to be much slower. And not necessarily as effective. 

YBR

In the circumstances would suggest you DIY it, and potentially ask an accountant to check over the forms before you send them.

My mother went from having no hand in the household finances to DIY probate with very little assistance, but did ask the family accountant to check which gave confidence.

poseidon1

YBR said:

In the circumstances would suggest you DIY it, and potentially ask an accountant to check over the forms before you send them.

My mother went from having no hand in the household finances to DIY probate with very little assistance, but did ask the family accountant to check which gave confidence.

Sensible reccomendation, although the vast majority of people will be unfamiliar with the idea of a family accountant on annual retainer.

If seeking an accountant's input and guidance would reccomend seeking a Chartered tax accountancy firm who are members of ICAEW. 

OP mentions a 2nd property, then rental income during estate administration period may be in point, requiring ongoing estate income tax compliance as well as IHT computational work.

The tax compliance side of a large estate can be a steep learning curve for a newbie on a DIY basis, so paying a professional for a helping hand on overly technical issues can make sense.

Newly_retired

My husband's estate was not as complicated as yours, but I sought an initial appointment with a STEP solicitor where I received a lot of free helpful advice. Obviously he hoped for further business, but I was able to obtain Probate myself. I used the solicitor at a later date to make a new will for myself and to do legal work on a property, so he did get something for his trouble, whilst I got free advice on things I could DIY. A good mix.

Marcon

pcgtron said:

Hi all. 

Very early into the probate process after a family members death, but already, the Solicitors that I was thinking of using as the sole Executor are being very slow to even get back to me with a simple query. I haven't yet signed the forms appointing them to help with this. 

I am seriously considering going through the probate process on my own, without using the Solicitors. I need to make a decision this weekend. 

The estate is a large one, worth approx 2 Million, with 2 properties. I am an educated, intelligent person, but I haven't done this before. Reading everything I can, whilst a lot of what I'd call donkey work, it actually seems quite straightforward. We are a small close family, with no conflict. There is a Will with very clear instructions for distribution of assets. I am also a Sole Trader, who fills in his own tax returns, so I am familiar with this process as well. My only worry is the HMRC IHT form, but I'm sure with some reading, I can manage this. 

Any major pitfalls anyone can think of that would suggest I should use a Solicitor for this, or can you DIY the process youself?

You can't appoint a firm of solicitors as sole executor if they weren't named as such in the will, so do you actually mean that?

Why not appoint them, or another firm if you prefer, to give advice to the named executor(s) as and when needed?

pcgtron

JamesRobinson48 said:

I recently did my Dad's probate DIY. His estate was £2m+ but did not include any properties at the time of death.  I was already familiar with his financial situation in detail, having held LPA for many years.

I paid all of the IHT from Dad's bank accounts (using the IHT423 process) and submitted the IHT400 forms within nine weeks of Dad passing. Less than three weeks after that, HMRC gave me the code to apply online for grant of probate. A further one week later, probate was granted. And in less than one week more, I had the hard copy grant certificates. Obtaining all of the cash from all ten different savings institutions took a further three weeks in total. So all told the entire process was done and dusted less than four months after Dad's death. Believe me, all beneficiaries were thrilled with the speedy outcome and the absence of any expenses incurred.

TBH, there was some work for me to do on nearly every day of those four months. But I could not honestly describe the task as arduous or difficult. No aspect of it was inherently complicated, hard to understand or awkward to get done. All of the savings and investment institutions provided competent, sympathetic and timely service. And there was no stress at all. The overall process was much quicker, more economical, and I'm sure far less frustrating than dealing with solicitors. 

It did help a lot that all family members cooperated fully in the process, everyone trusted each other, and there have been no disagreements at all.

Thank you. With the exception of 2 properties to sell, which will obviously take longer, this is kinda my exact situation. I think I will proceed on my own. I'm sure there will be questions, but feeling confident I can pull this off.

My only question at the moment is do you have to pay IHT before probate is granted, or just have submitted the IHT forms to HMRC to agree the figure for IHT. If there is then time left on the 6 month clock, can you get probate granted before actually paying the IHT

pcgtron

jmr95 said:

My condolences for your loss. 

I shared my recent DIY experience here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6634438/diy-estate-handling-my-recent-experience-england#latest

I didn't find it particularly difficult, just laborious. As you say, plenty of donkey work. Albeit I found it quite cathartic. 

Your estate is larger and presumably you will have taxes but if you already have a good handle of the assets and a clear will it's certainly a step in the right direction - ultimately the forms are the same wether you pay the tax or not but some aspects make it more complicated like land, farms, expensive jewellery etc. If you detail a bit more of the contents and anything that strikes you as potentially more complicated then perhaps you'll get a clearer answer.

One thing to call out though is being an executor is not the same as "getting probate"

Probate is just part of that process albeit it often gets used as the overall term. 

Personally I had no desire to use a solicitor to do that for me. I work at a fast pace and they don't, but also I didn't have anything complicated 

Best of luck with the process. This forum is very helpful 

Thank you. I am exactly that person, one that works quickly and wants to get on with things. There might be a small complication with some offshore bonds and CGT but apart from the everything else seems straightforward