Consumer Rights With Broadband Supplier

Peakoverload

I have been with Zen Internet for a few years and when I was with them at my old address, they were very good. However, when I moved house things went a bit downhill.

They said that I had to have a new account but they managed to mess this up and initially they were trying to activate my service on the old account and it took a few days and lots of calls to resolve.

Then there were issues with the routers they supplied, just being too weak. I had been paying for their "any room" service where they guarantee strong wi-fi throughout the house and will supply additional repeaters until it does. At the new house I needed an additional repeater but they kept delaying on sending one. In the end I noticed that they hadn't transferred the 'any room' service to the new account and so in the end I just went out and bought an additional one myself.

As well as Internet, they also provide us with digital voice through the router. However, they are now offering much better routers than the ones they provided me with and I wanted to upgrade to these at an additional monthly cost, but these new routers don't support digital voice. I told them that we have never used the digital voice service since we moved in and would be happy to lose it if it meant better Wi-Fi with the new routers. They told me that as I was still under contract for Digital Voice, I would have to pay an early termination fee (basically the full amount to the end of the contract).

We've also now been without Internet for 2 weeks and have just been told it will be another 6 days before it's repaired. This is due to a break in a fibre cable from OpenReach. As I work from home I asked whether they supplied Wi-Fi dongles as my neighbours had all been sent them from their providers (not with Zen), but Zen told me they are out of stock.

Individually none of these things are particularly bad and the 3 week outage isn't Zen's fault as it's OpenReach controlled, but collectively the service has been rubbish since we moved. Their terms and conditions say:

"...we do not give any guarantee that the services will be uninterrupted or free from error. Where necessary for commercial, technical or other reasons a third party network or service provider we use may suspend or terminate their connection to the services. You agree that  suspension or termination will not constitute a breach by us of the Agreement and that the services are provided on an "as is" basis without guarantee of any kind."

So I guess, in theory, we could keep paying every month until the end of our contract for no service and this would still be legal.

I'm getting so fed up with Zen that I really want to leave but have around 11 months left on our contract. I'm assuming I have no option but to stick with them until it's up for renewal but what constitutes a breach of contract by them?

Exodi

There can be a right to compensation for broadband outages (as governed by Ofcom's Automatic Compensation Scheme (ACS)).

It kicks in after 2 working days of an outage (that is a total outage, not intermittent and I've heard of some providers trying to avoid this where the service came back up for 1 minute within the two day period).

You can read more here:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/service-quality/automatic-compensation-need-know

You'll note Zen is signed up to the scheme, details can be found here:

https://www.zen.co.uk/help-support/auto-compensation-faq/

I don't want to comment on the other issues because if you were out of contract, then it was probably risky to suggest they 'move' your contract, instead of just ending your agreement and signing up as a new customer at the new address.

Many of the problems come from this and the (common) issue of not getting signal in parts of your house. I'm surprised suppliers still carelessly market promises like this - they have no control over whether the customer decides the best place for their router is one corner of their house inside a faraday box. I expect a significant number of houses bigger than 1-2 beds will need a repeater of some sort.

Ergates

Peakoverload said:

As well as Internet, they also provide us with digital voice through the router. However, they are now offering much better routers than the ones they provided me with and I wanted to upgrade to these at an additional monthly cost, but these new routers don't support digital voice. I told them that we have never used the digital voice service since we moved in and would be happy to lose it if it meant better Wi-Fi with the new routers. They told me that as I was still under contract for Digital Voice, I would have to pay an early termination fee (basically the full amount to the end of the contract).

Whilst this is annoying, it seems fair.  You have a contract for VOIP, if they provided you with equipment that could not support it, then you would be within your rights to claim for breach of contract.  You can say "We won't do that, honest", but that has no legal standing (i.e. you could still turn around and do it).

How are the new routers "much better" ?  In terms of coverage?  Reliability?    I've never used the routers provided by my ISPs as they're usually total mince.

born_again

If you are working from home & need a reliable connection then you really should be on a business class product. Which would come with a backup option.

We risk it on virgin, but then we can tether our mobiles should there be any outages.

If you want a good WiFi router, better to source one yourself. Or try moving the current one. I found that putting ours on a shelf in the hallway meant we got WiFi in all rooms for phones, but all computers are hardwired via Cat 5 cables.

Exodi

Ergates said:
How are the new routers "much better" ?  In terms of coverage?  Reliability?    I've never used the routers provided by my ISPs as they're usually total mince.

Similar to the above, I wouldn't choose an ISP on their router. I use a third party router and network points throughout the house, that way the network is always consistent (outside of area service outages).

Things like Eero, Deco, Nest, etc.

Very easy to set up.

You could also run ethernet, at least to your primary device if signal is a concern.

Also means you can shop around. I enjoy my ~£100 giftcard every year or two from changing broadband providers.

littleboo

You're entitled to ~£10/day compensation so use that to buy a mobile internet router or dongle and a SIM with a data plan. If you WFH, then you need a plan B

Peakoverload

Thank you for the replies. I understand about compensation and all the different issues surrounding routers etc.

My question is, if a provider has in their terms and conditions clauses that say that they do not have to give any guarantee that the services will be uninterrupted or free from error, when could a customer leave them because their overall service, including actual connectivity, has been poor and not get charged early termination fees?

From their T&C's it appears that their isn't a minimum level of service that they are expected to provide both in terms of customer care and in terms of the actual service you are paying for.

Regardless of whether a customer is using their Internet connection for business or not, most of us these days pay for other Internet services, like Streaming services as well as things like Banking and even for medical purposes. There is also the issue that with copper phone lines being phased out, if you loose your Internet connection, you loose your phone as well and that can have very serious implications especially for those living in rural areas. The notion that a domestic customer is using the Internet for non essential needs is no longer accurate. The Internet for many is as essential as electricity and water. So where is our protection when companies are not providing the service we pay for or expect when they have no responsibility to provide it?

eskbanker

Peakoverload said:

I have been with Zen Internet for a few years and when I was with them at my old address, they were very good. However, when I moved house things went a bit downhill.

They said that I had to have a new account but they managed to mess this up and initially they were trying to activate my service on the old account and it took a few days and lots of calls to resolve.
Frustrating and avoidable admin failure, but unlikely to be reason to terminate.

Then there were issues with the routers they supplied, just being too weak. I had been paying for their "any room" service where they guarantee strong wi-fi throughout the house and will supply additional repeaters until it does. At the new house I needed an additional repeater but they kept delaying on sending one. In the end I noticed that they hadn't transferred the 'any room' service to the new account and so in the end I just went out and bought an additional one myself.
So they weren't providing a service that you weren't paying for?

As well as Internet, they also provide us with digital voice through the router. However, they are now offering much better routers than the ones they provided me with and I wanted to upgrade to these at an additional monthly cost, but these new routers don't support digital voice. I told them that we have never used the digital voice service since we moved in and would be happy to lose it if it meant better Wi-Fi with the new routers. They told me that as I was still under contract for Digital Voice, I would have to pay an early termination fee (basically the full amount to the end of the contract).
You committed to a paid service so need to pay for it while still within the minimum period.

We've also now been without Internet for 2 weeks and have just been told it will be another 6 days before it's repaired. This is due to a break in a fibre cable from OpenReach. As I work from home I asked whether they supplied Wi-Fi dongles as my neighbours had all been sent them from their providers (not with Zen), but Zen told me they are out of stock.
Do they make any sort of commitment to providing such devices as cover for extended outages within the Ts & Cs?

Individually none of these things are particularly bad and the 3 week outage isn't Zen's fault as it's OpenReach controlled, but collectively the service has been rubbish since we moved. Their terms and conditions say:

"...we do not give any guarantee that the services will be uninterrupted or free from error. Where necessary for commercial, technical or other reasons a third party network or service provider we use may suspend or terminate their connection to the services. You agree that  suspension or termination will not constitute a breach by us of the Agreement and that the services are provided on an "as is" basis without guarantee of any kind."

So I guess, in theory, we could keep paying every month until the end of our contract for no service and this would still be legal.

I'm getting so fed up with Zen that I really want to leave but have around 11 months left on our contract. I'm assuming I have no option but to stick with them until it's up for renewal but what constitutes a breach of contract by them?

Some comments added above, from a devil's advocate perspective - it's unclear that any of them is actually breach of contract by Zen, and even less so that anything would constitute a material breach that couldn't be remedied, so I don't think you have unilateral termination rights, but worth checking the Ts & Cs of your agreement for how it addresses termination issues.

born_again

Peakoverload said:

Thank you for the replies. I understand about compensation and all the different issues surrounding routers etc.

My question is, if a provider has in their terms and conditions clauses that say that they do not have to give any guarantee that the services will be uninterrupted or free from error, when could a customer leave them because their overall service, including actual connectivity, has been poor and not get charged early termination fees?

From their T&C's it appears that their isn't a minimum level of service that they are expected to provide both in terms of customer care and in terms of the actual service you are paying for.

Regardless of whether a customer is using their Internet connection for business or not, most of us these days pay for other Internet services, like Streaming services as well as things like Banking and even for medical purposes. There is also the issue that with copper phone lines being phased out, if you loose your Internet connection, you loose your phone as well and that can have very serious implications especially for those living in rural areas. The notion that a domestic customer is using the Internet for non essential needs is no longer accurate. The Internet for many is as essential as electricity and water. So where is our protection when companies are not providing the service we pay for or expect when they have no responsibility to provide it?

Your ISP can not give anything about uninterrupted connection. As that is all out of their control & supplied by 3rd party. Best you will get is paying for business level connection. Which will have better T/C & fix timescales.
Aside from all that even then. Man with digger can sever a cable. Did it to our call center. Took half a day to get connected again, as it was outside building & no way to route over a redundant back up connection. So a 100% up time even when paying massive costs is never going to happen.

In terms of connectivity, they do not cover WiFi as they have no control over your building construction. 

Domestic customer is at the bottom of the pile, given the price you are paying.

littleboo

Peakoverload said:

Thank you for the replies. I understand about compensation and all the different issues surrounding routers etc.

My question is, if a provider has in their terms and conditions clauses that say that they do not have to give any guarantee that the services will be uninterrupted or free from error, when could a customer leave them because their overall service, including actual connectivity, has been poor and not get charged early termination fees?

From their T&C's it appears that their isn't a minimum level of service that they are expected to provide both in terms of customer care and in terms of the actual service you are paying for.

Regardless of whether a customer is using their Internet connection for business or not, most of us these days pay for other Internet services, like Streaming services as well as things like Banking and even for medical purposes. There is also the issue that with copper phone lines being phased out, if you loose your Internet connection, you loose your phone as well and that can have very serious implications especially for those living in rural areas. The notion that a domestic customer is using the Internet for non essential needs is no longer accurate. The Internet for many is as essential as electricity and water. So where is our protection when companies are not providing the service we pay for or expect when they have no responsibility to provide it?

I don't think there is an absolute definition of a time period, its more whats reasonable. If its an Openreach cable that's been damaged, that might mean gaining permissions for street works or availability of particular equipment. In that case, a few weeks or more might be completely reasonable and beyond the control of OR.
Presumably there is another network provider you would like to go with?
Have you asked Zen about leaving?