Employers duty of care question

Ezio2025

born_again said:

Ezio2025 said:

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

Sorry for you loss.

No one may see that wage slip & even if they did, are they aware of your personal financial situation?

Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. 

Yes from what other people have said as replies to the post I’ve learned that no one might of actually seen the payslip (my mistake). 

But the management would have know the low amount of hours clocked & would have known after deductions I’d be left with next to nothing. They’d also of known I have un-allocated holiday left. 

So somewhere along the line there would have been opportunity for management to pipe up & say he’s going to end up with nothing & could have helped by suggesting the holiday I’m due could be exchanged. 

The whole management & HR department knew about the reason for the absence being related to bereavement but they might not of known I’d be financially responsible for the cost of the funeral. 

That being said can anyone nowadays afford to stretch £20 for any month let alone it being December. 

There’s clearly no legal responsibility from the employer to see that I’m okay financially it’s literally just a moral issue I think they’ve overlooked 
I just think they could have dealt with the situation better & looked after their employee a bit better - but at the same time they’re running a business so I do get it. 

cr1mson

Sorry for your loss. It may be that the employer felt they were being compassionate by not asking you if wanted to take holiday ie they thought that you had wanted to keep holidays for something else. They also may have assumed that you had factored in the impact unpaid leave would have on your pay this month.

MattMattMattUK

There could be a multitude of reason why they did not mention holiday to you, your manager might not have been aware, might not have been allowed, might have asked and HR pointed him to the no holiday policy etc.. These things are never as clean as they can appear from one side.

Having been an employee ,managed large teams, small teams and now running my own business my financial wellbeing is not something I would have ever expected my employer to be responsible for.

When my dad died I did take a few days off, to register the death, to sort things with the funeral directors and the funeral itself, but because of my workload I did not have the ability to take any more time off. When a sibling died I was paid by the shift, I only got paid for what I worked so I also had to manage that accordingly.

Ezio2025 said:

That being said can anyone nowadays afford to stretch £20 for any month let alone it being December. 

You might be surprised, 18% have no savings, 38% less than £1k, but the average is £18k and 40% of households have more than £50k. It varies by age and circumstance, but lots of people are risk averse and so prioritise savings over many other things.

This kind of thing can feel harsh and impersonal, or it can be very easy to take it personally when you are already facing a hard time emotionally. I think in a month or two you will probably look back and wonder why it bothered you, once everything is in a bit more perspective with the benefit of time. 

saajan_12

Ezio2025 said:

born_again said:

Ezio2025 said:

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

Sorry for you loss.

No one may see that wage slip & even if they did, are they aware of your personal financial situation?

Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. 

Yes from what other people have said as replies to the post I’ve learned that no one might of actually seen the payslip (my mistake). 

But the management would have know the low amount of hours clocked & would have known after deductions I’d be left with next to nothing. They’d also of known I have un-allocated holiday left. 

So somewhere along the line there would have been opportunity for management to pipe up & say he’s going to end up with nothing & could have helped by suggesting the holiday I’m due could be exchanged. 

The whole management & HR department knew about the reason for the absence being related to bereavement but they might not of known I’d be financially responsible for the cost of the funeral. 

That being said can anyone nowadays afford to stretch £20 for any month let alone it being December. 

There’s clearly no legal responsibility from the employer to see that I’m okay financially it’s literally just a moral issue I think they’ve overlooked 
I just think they could have dealt with the situation better & looked after their employee a bit better - but at the same time they’re running a business so I do get it. 

Sorry for your loss. 
Unfortunatelly what you describe requires a lot of joined up departments which will often be quite separate. The more things are automated or even defined into a process, there's fewer people looking at which month your days out fall into, how many hours left in that month, what that'd translate into pay wise, whether you've mentioned having savings or not, etc. 

If presented with all the facts, then yes morally it would be nice if people tried to avoid bad situations, but its likely no single person had all the relevant facts. A row in a spreadsheet is not a person actually thinking. 

Ezio2025

saajan_12 said:

Ezio2025 said:

born_again said:

Ezio2025 said:

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

Sorry for you loss.

No one may see that wage slip & even if they did, are they aware of your personal financial situation?

Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. 

Yes from what other people have said as replies to the post I’ve learned that no one might of actually seen the payslip (my mistake). 

But the management would have know the low amount of hours clocked & would have known after deductions I’d be left with next to nothing. They’d also of known I have un-allocated holiday left. 

So somewhere along the line there would have been opportunity for management to pipe up & say he’s going to end up with nothing & could have helped by suggesting the holiday I’m due could be exchanged. 

The whole management & HR department knew about the reason for the absence being related to bereavement but they might not of known I’d be financially responsible for the cost of the funeral. 

That being said can anyone nowadays afford to stretch £20 for any month let alone it being December. 

There’s clearly no legal responsibility from the employer to see that I’m okay financially it’s literally just a moral issue I think they’ve overlooked 
I just think they could have dealt with the situation better & looked after their employee a bit better - but at the same time they’re running a business so I do get it. 

Sorry for your loss. 
Unfortunatelly what you describe requires a lot of joined up departments which will often be quite separate. The more things are automated or even defined into a process, there's fewer people looking at which month your days out fall into, how many hours left in that month, what that'd translate into pay wise, whether you've mentioned having savings or not, etc. 

If presented with all the facts, then yes morally it would be nice if people tried to avoid bad situations, but it’s likely no single person had all the relevant facts. A row in a spreadsheet is not a person actually thinking. 

This really makes it make sense to me 

Thank you! 

Savvy_Sue

Also remember the costs of the funeral come from the estate, before anyone gets anything else. (Too late, but you could probably have got the bill paid direct from his bank account.)

EnPointe

saajan_12 said:

Ezio2025 said:

born_again said:

Ezio2025 said:

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

Sorry for you loss.

No one may see that wage slip & even if they did, are they aware of your personal financial situation?

Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. 

Yes from what other people have said as replies to the post I’ve learned that no one might of actually seen the payslip (my mistake). 

But the management would have know the low amount of hours clocked & would have known after deductions I’d be left with next to nothing. They’d also of known I have un-allocated holiday left. 

So somewhere along the line there would have been opportunity for management to pipe up & say he’s going to end up with nothing & could have helped by suggesting the holiday I’m due could be exchanged. 

The whole management & HR department knew about the reason for the absence being related to bereavement but they might not of known I’d be financially responsible for the cost of the funeral. 

That being said can anyone nowadays afford to stretch £20 for any month let alone it being December. 

There’s clearly no legal responsibility from the employer to see that I’m okay financially it’s literally just a moral issue I think they’ve overlooked 
I just think they could have dealt with the situation better & looked after their employee a bit better - but at the same time they’re running a business so I do get it. 

Sorry for your loss. 
Unfortunatelly what you describe requires a lot of joined up departments which will often be quite separate. The more things are automated or even defined into a process, there's fewer people looking at which month your days out fall into, how many hours left in that month, what that'd translate into pay wise, whether you've mentioned having savings or not, etc. 

If presented with all the facts, then yes morally it would be nice if people tried to avoid bad situations, but its likely no single person had all the relevant facts. A row in a spreadsheet is not a person actually thinking. 

it needs a proactive line or next level manager  or a really engaged  ( and narrow span + communicative line managers)  People  Manager ot  do that .. if it;s all semi automated and the different departments spread arnouncd the country if not the world ... then all bets are off 

ohreallƳ

Sorry to hear of your situation.

In your position I'd be looking to move on, they have put their cards on the table, time to exit I recon. 

Ezio2025

ohreallƳ said:

Sorry to hear of your situation.

In your position I'd be looking to move on, they have put their cards on the table, time to exit I recon. 

Yep precisely, already got several interviews booked & as soon as I have something concrete in goes the notice 

soolin

ohreallƳ said:

Sorry to hear of your situation.

In your position I'd be looking to move on, they have put their cards on the table, time to exit I recon. 

Ezio2025 said:

ohreallƳ said:

Sorry to hear of your situation.

In your position I'd be looking to move on, they have put their cards on the table, time to exit I recon. 

Yep precisely, already got several interviews booked & as soon as I have something concrete in goes the notice 

I am sorry for your loss and I suspect you feel the need to do 'something' as this has caused you upset. but are you sure this is sensible? I have worked for a few companies in my time, most had actual policy about bereavements, many 'allowing' 2 days maximum . Unpaid leave was often not available, and it was come to work or rethink whether we are a good fit for you. 

However I'm old and perhaps we were expected to get on with things more, and maybe a new approach with some more sympathy may well be better overall for staff morale and metal health reasons. I would just not do anything rash while your mind is so full of grief .