Employers duty of care question

Ezio2025

I recently took a large amount of time off work after my father died. 

My employer deducted the absence from my wages leaving me with £20.79 paid in November- 9 days after my Dads funeral. I actually had 5 days (55 hours) of holiday pay that 
1- I didn’t know about 
2 - I was unable to request as it’s the busiest time of year so there’s a “no holiday request policy in place” 

My question is - 

is there a failure in my employers duty of care by instructing payroll to suspend my pay until the salary cut of period & then knowing I’d only be paid £20.79 - not offering to exchanging 55 of the absence hours with holiday (I can’t request / take)? 

It’s caused financial distress & it wouldn’t have if I’d just been offered to exchange some of the absence for holiday. 

Devongardener

Did your employer warn you in advance that your absence would be unpaid, maybe when they told them you didn’t feel able to go into work?
They should have done, but a lot possibly depends on your previous attendance record and whether they’ve done this in the past.

in these circumstances a fair employer should have considered whether you had any unused holiday to use, regardless of not normally allowing leave at busy times.    

Does your employment contract state anything about compassionate leave?    

Have you spoken to your line manager and HR/payroll manager?

MattMattMattUK

Ezio2025 said:

I recently took a large amount of time off work after my father died. 

My employer deducted the absence from my wages leaving me with £20.79 paid in November- 9 days after my Dads funeral. I actually had 5 days (55 hours) of holiday pay that 
1- I didn’t know about 
2 - I was unable to request as it’s the busiest time of year so there’s a “no holiday request policy in place” 

My question is - 

is there a failure in my employers duty of care by instructing payroll to suspend my pay until the salary cut of period & then knowing I’d only be paid £20.79 - not offering to exchanging 55 of the absence hours with holiday (I can’t request / take)? 

It’s caused financial distress & it wouldn’t have if I’d just been offered to exchange some of the absence for holiday. 

No, unfortunately not on both points. You took unpaid leave, that means that time off goes unpaid. They could have potentially allowed you to use some holiday, but they are in no way legally obliged to.

elsien

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

Ezio2025

Devongardener said:

Did your employer warn you in advance that your absence would be unpaid, maybe when they told them you didn’t feel able to go into work?
They should have done, but a lot possibly depends on your previous attendance record and whether they’ve done this in the past.

in these circumstances a fair employer should have considered whether you had any unused holiday to use, regardless of not normally allowing leave at busy times.    

Does your employment contract state anything about compassionate leave?    

Have you spoken to your line manager and HR/payroll manager?

Yes so I’d previously taken time off that was documented sick by my GP for stress & depression from the bereavement. 

Then I returned for a week & was still suffering so took more time off over the time of the funeral.  

He contacted me and said my pay will be suspended until I return then instructed payroll to only pay The hours I worked & deduct from that all the absence. 

It left me with £20 when I had 55 hours of holiday I didn’t even know about. If I knew about the holiday at the point of him saying the pay was suspended I would have asked to exchange it but I didn’t know & it wasn’t offered. I understand there’s no legal obligation to exchange it but I just thought it’s a pretty awful thing to do to someone 

Ezio2025

MattMattMattUK said:

Ezio2025 said:

I recently took a large amount of time off work after my father died. 

My employer deducted the absence from my wages leaving me with £20.79 paid in November- 9 days after my Dads funeral. I actually had 5 days (55 hours) of holiday pay that 
1- I didn’t know about 
2 - I was unable to request as it’s the busiest time of year so there’s a “no holiday request policy in place” 

My question is - 

is there a failure in my employers duty of care by instructing payroll to suspend my pay until the salary cut of period & then knowing I’d only be paid £20.79 - not offering to exchanging 55 of the absence hours with holiday (I can’t request / take)? 

It’s caused financial distress & it wouldn’t have if I’d just been offered to exchange some of the absence for holiday. 

No, unfortunately not on both points. You took unpaid leave, that means that time off goes unpaid. They could have potentially allowed you to use some holiday, but they are in no way legally obliged to.

Yeah I thought there was no legal obligation it’s just a moral thing I guess - they could of looked at my wages & thought
“wow he’s only getting £20 9 days after he’s buried his father what can we do to help…does he have any holiday?”

But not everyone thinks like that I suppose it’s upsetting but it’s business at the end of the day 

Ezio2025

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

itsthelittlethings

You should have got signed off then at least you would have got SSP. They should perhaps have advised you this or offered you to take it as holiday.

MyRealNameToo

Ezio2025 said:

I recently took a large amount of time off work after my father died. 

My employer deducted the absence from my wages leaving me with £20.79 paid in November- 9 days after my Dads funeral. I actually had 5 days (55 hours) of holiday pay that 
1- I didn’t know about 
2 - I was unable to request as it’s the busiest time of year so there’s a “no holiday request policy in place” 

My question is - 

is there a failure in my employers duty of care by instructing payroll to suspend my pay until the salary cut of period & then knowing I’d only be paid £20.79 - not offering to exchanging 55 of the absence hours with holiday (I can’t request / take)? 

It’s caused financial distress & it wouldn’t have if I’d just been offered to exchange some of the absence for holiday. 

1. Why didnt you know how much holiday entitlement you had left? 

2. But you are on holiday anyway, there is no right to have bereavement/ compassionate leave so it's basically holiday unless your GP signs you off as sick. If its holiday then its little difference to the employer if its take as unpaid or paid holiday, you are still breaking the no holiday period either way. 

MattMattMattUK

Ezio2025 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Ezio2025 said:

I recently took a large amount of time off work after my father died. 

My employer deducted the absence from my wages leaving me with £20.79 paid in November- 9 days after my Dads funeral. I actually had 5 days (55 hours) of holiday pay that 
1- I didn’t know about 
2 - I was unable to request as it’s the busiest time of year so there’s a “no holiday request policy in place” 

My question is - 

is there a failure in my employers duty of care by instructing payroll to suspend my pay until the salary cut of period & then knowing I’d only be paid £20.79 - not offering to exchanging 55 of the absence hours with holiday (I can’t request / take)? 

It’s caused financial distress & it wouldn’t have if I’d just been offered to exchange some of the absence for holiday. 

No, unfortunately not on both points. You took unpaid leave, that means that time off goes unpaid. They could have potentially allowed you to use some holiday, but they are in no way legally obliged to.

Yeah I thought there was no legal obligation it’s just a moral thing I guess - they could of looked at my wages & thought
“wow he’s only getting £20 9 days after he’s buried his father what can we do to help…does he have any holiday?”

But not everyone thinks like that I suppose it’s upsetting but it’s business at the end of the day 

They might not have actually looked at the payslip, most payroll is just run, not individually scrutinised. Payroll would have just been told you were off on unpaid leave and adjusted accordingly. 

Depending on the size of the business the no holiday allowed policy might also be well above their pay grade, many companies use it to both stop understaffing during during peak times, but also to make a wage saving during quiet times. 

I think you are taking this too personally, there was/is a process, they just let that run, that is all, they did not set out to harm you, they do not have a duty of care to you. It is a tough one as an employer, a previous employer many years ago only allowed the day of death, a day for registering the death and a day for the funeral as paid, anything else had to be taken as unpaid leave, another literally only paid shifts worked, so any time off for a death was unpaid. I have never taken things personally, it just is what it is. 

born_again

Ezio2025 said:

elsien said:

Employers duty of care in what respect? Is there particular legislation here that you are referring to? 

No particular legislation no, just from a moral standpoint- like is it considered their duty of care to try to prevent financial hardship. Considering how expensive funerals are + the fact I would only bank £20 when I had 55 hours holiday available that I’m not actually able to even apply for. 

They could of elected to offer to exchange it to help me 

It doesn’t take a genius to look at a wage slip & see this person is gong to struggle what can we do to help? 

But I guess there’s no legal obligation to help so it’s upsetting but it’s a business at the end of the day I suppose 

Sorry for you loss.

No one may see that wage slip & even if they did, are they aware of your personal financial situation?