Questions after receiving probate - Can you help?

Noahnewby

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

gjcody

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

The accounts come at the very end, as you have found the total are always moving.

I have a Spreadsheet but cannot send it to you, are you capable with Excel or is one of your siblings or friends? I can give you the box title you need and they could do the Geeky stuff.

I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

Probate is different from what you submitted to the Court. Is there IHT due do you think, or if you have all the figures you submitted Google HMRC IHT Calculator and have a stab. I don't wish to sound rude but given the worth of the property you have posted, I doubt it is. The Calculator will work out you IHT liability, the you will know where you stand and what Forms, etc have to be completed.

As the Executor you can transfer the Deeds to your name(s), do remember though when it comes to sell all 3 of you will have to be available to sign it away. Talk to the other beneficiaries and see if they are happy that you hold it in your sole na,me to make things easier! It is a simple process and you don't really need a Solicitor to be honest.

Get the property valued, then ask the Agent if the work would increase the price to worthwhile amount?

Check you local Council website bereavement page it may be there or give them a quick call, every one is different, they normally to not charge providing it is empty, but it is how long for where they differ greatly. It should have stopped the day she died as I take it you used Tell Us Once?

You will pay CGT on the price difference from the Value now and the price you sell, less the costs of the work, be do be careful here costs are the most arguable point of this venture. Back to is it really worth the effort, only you 3 can decide that.

Do you have the Deeds, the property number you will need it. Google Land Registry TR1 you can get the form and there is link for advice as I recall too, read it carefully it tells you all. You my need another Form (AP! Maybe) its been a while. My advice is do read the ,gov and the Land-registry site, not what AI answer thinks is right and if you are in any doubt go to a professional Conveyancer.

WillowLeaf

gjcody said:

As the Executor you can transfer the Deeds to your name(s), do remember though when it comes to sell all 3 of you will have to be available to sign it away. Talk to the other beneficiaries and see if they are happy that you hold it in your sole na,me to make things easier! It is a simple process and you don't really need a Solicitor to be honest.

Do you have the Deeds, the property number you will need it.

Is there a benefit to transferring the property to other names prior to it being sold? It's an admin task as well as making the 3 brothers 2nd home owners, and potentially losing First-Time Buyers benefits as well?

You don't need the physical deeds (I know that wasn't mentioned), you can get that online at the Land Registry site for a modest sum.

Savvy_Sue

WillowLeaf said:

You don't need the physical deeds (I know that wasn't mentioned), you can get that online at the Land Registry site for a modest sum.

That's assuming the house is registered: if it's not, then that needs to happen, and the physical deeds will be very helpful in the process. 

poseidon1

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

As regards a template for layout and presentation of estate accounts the rather simplistic one below might assist -

https://qlaw.co.uk/services/power-of-attorney/probate-downloads/

I must point out its not something  I would ever contemplate using professionally especially since it is unhelpful for estates in receipt of taxable income and gains during the estate administration period as well as not addressing aspects such as accrued income at  date of death, IHT and any amendments thereto ,during the admin period.

However, for the mass of people with very simple estates below the IHT threshold and no grasp of the principles of double entry book keeping and how to compile a formal  income account, capital account and balance sheet/distribution account, it maybe suitable.

Certainly, the format seems be indicative of what many low level non STEP qualified solicitor firms who do not use professional estate accounting  software from the likes of Troika and Wealthworks, are capable of producing.

OP, given the very modest value of the estate property you quoted ( £40 -50k), it seems this is a very small estate that will not require a  more sophisticated estate accounting approach.

SVaz

Absolutely no need to change ownership before selling,  all it does is drag out a sale.  
My Dad’s house was sold without ever being registered at the LR,  as long as you have the Deeds then the Conveyancer does everything. 

Noahnewby

gjcody said:

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

The accounts come at the very end, as you have found the total are always moving.over  

I have a Spreadsheet but cannot send it to you, are you capable with Excel or is one of your siblings or friends? I can give you the box title you need and they could do the Geeky stuff.

I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

Probate is different from what you submitted to the Court. Is there IHT due do you think, or if you have all the figures you submitted Google HMRC IHT Calculator and have a stab. I don't wish to sound rude but given the worth of the property you have posted, I doubt it is. The Calculator will work out you IHT liability, the you will know where you stand and what Forms, etc have to be completed.

As the Executor you can transfer the Deeds to your name(s), do remember though when it comes to sell all 3 of you will have to be available to sign it away. Talk to the other beneficiaries and see if they are happy that you hold it in your sole na,me to make things easier! It is a simple process and you don't really need a Solicitor to be honest.

Get the property valued, then ask the Agent if the work would increase the price to worthwhile amount?

Check you local Council website bereavement page it may be there or give them a quick call, every one is different, they normally to not charge providing it is empty, but it is how long for where they differ greatly. It should have stopped the day she died as I take it you used Tell Us Once?

You will pay CGT on the price difference from the Value now and the price you sell, less the costs of the work, be do be careful here costs are the most arguable point of this venture. Back to is it really worth the effort, only you 3 can decide that.

Do you have the Deeds, the property number you will need it. Google Land Registry TR1 you can get the form and there is link for advice as I recall too, read it carefully it tells you all. You my need another Form (AP! Maybe) its been a while. My advice is do read the ,gov and the Land-registry site, not what AI answer thinks is right and if you are in any doubt go to a professional Conveyancer.

Tposeidon1 said:

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

As regards a template for layout and presentation of estate accounts the rather simplistic one below might assist -

https://qlaw.co.uk/services/power-of-attorney/probate-downloads/

I must point out its not something  I would ever contemplate using professionally especially since it is unhelpful for estates in receipt of taxable income and gains during the estate administration period as well as not addressing aspects such as accrued income at  date of death, IHT and any amendments thereto ,during the admin period.

However, for the mass of people with very simple estates below the IHT threshold and no grasp of the principles of double entry book keeping and how to compile a formal  income account, capital account and balance sheet/distribution account, it maybe suitable.

Certainly, the format seems be indicative of what many low level non STEP qualified solicitor firms who do not use professional estate accounting  software from the likes of Troika and Wealthworks, are capable of producing.

OP, given the very modest value of the estate property you quoted ( £40 -50k), it seems this is a very small estate that will not require a  more sophisticated estate accounting approach.

The estate is very simple and there's no IHT to pay.  I had already put the numbers into the calculator before applying for probate.

I did the simple conveyancing paperwork for her to buy her house from the Local Authority that is the property in question.Therefore, I have in my possession the Land Registry Land Certificate that contains the Title Number. I've also had dealings with The Land Registry in the past and found them very helpful.

The figures quoted for the property were the lowest and highest quoted by 3 separate Estate Agents and it was a representative of one of these who suggested to my brother it would be worthwhile to repair and renovate it for a substantial profit. I'll make enquiries of the Council concerned as you suggest and, if there's a favourable timescale, my instinct would be to transfer the property to him and let him get on with it. I'll make sure he knows to keep detailed costs of the work concerned to, hopefully, prevent any arguments later.

Thanks anyway for your valuable advice.

Noahnewby

As regards a template for layout and presentation of estate accounts the rather simplistic one below might assist -
https://qlaw.co.uk/services/power-of-attorney/probate-downloads/
I must point out its not something  I would ever contemplate using professionally especially since it is unhelpful for estates in receipt of taxable income and gains during the estate administration period as well as not addressing aspects such as accrued income at  date of death, IHT and any amendments thereto ,during the admin period.
However, for the mass of people with very simple estates below the IHT threshold and no grasp of the principles of double entry book keeping and how to compile a formal  income account, capital account and balance sheet/distribution account, it maybe suitable. 
Certainly, the format seems be indicative of what many low level non STEP qualified solicitor firms who do not use professional estate accounting  software from the likes of Troika and Wealthworks, are capable of producing.
OP, given the very modest value of the estate property you quoted ( £40 -50k), it seems this is a very small estate that will not require a  more sophisticated estate accounting approach.

These templates seem ideal to me, thanks for the suggestion.

YoungBlueEyes

Noahnewby said:

gjcody said:

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

The accounts come at the very end, as you have found the total are always moving.over  

I have a Spreadsheet but cannot send it to you, are you capable with Excel or is one of your siblings or friends? I can give you the box title you need and they could do the Geeky stuff.

I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

Probate is different from what you submitted to the Court. Is there IHT due do you think, or if you have all the figures you submitted Google HMRC IHT Calculator and have a stab. I don't wish to sound rude but given the worth of the property you have posted, I doubt it is. The Calculator will work out you IHT liability, the you will know where you stand and what Forms, etc have to be completed.

As the Executor you can transfer the Deeds to your name(s), do remember though when it comes to sell all 3 of you will have to be available to sign it away. Talk to the other beneficiaries and see if they are happy that you hold it in your sole na,me to make things easier! It is a simple process and you don't really need a Solicitor to be honest.

Get the property valued, then ask the Agent if the work would increase the price to worthwhile amount?

Check you local Council website bereavement page it may be there or give them a quick call, every one is different, they normally to not charge providing it is empty, but it is how long for where they differ greatly. It should have stopped the day she died as I take it you used Tell Us Once?

You will pay CGT on the price difference from the Value now and the price you sell, less the costs of the work, be do be careful here costs are the most arguable point of this venture. Back to is it really worth the effort, only you 3 can decide that.

Do you have the Deeds, the property number you will need it. Google Land Registry TR1 you can get the form and there is link for advice as I recall too, read it carefully it tells you all. You my need another Form (AP! Maybe) its been a while. My advice is do read the ,gov and the Land-registry site, not what AI answer thinks is right and if you are in any doubt go to a professional Conveyancer.

Tposeidon1 said:

Noahnewby said:

As the executor, I followed the DIY route described on MSE and have recently received probate for my mother’s estate. I am awaiting two financial services to transfer money to an account set up for this purpose.

 Once this is done, I should be able to prepare the account and distribute the estate as set out in her will to the beneficiaries, myself and my two brothers.

 I have several questions that I’ve set out below.

 Is there a standard format to prepare an account for an estate? If so, is there anywhere you can download said format? If necessary, I’m prepared to pay for anything that makes the preparation of an account simpler.

When entering the figures for the account do I use the current figures which have changed slightly? This is due to several small tax rebates and extra interest earned that have come to light since I submitted the known amounts to HMCTS Probate.

On a separate issue, as beneficiaries we were left a property that was valued between £40 to £50k as it stands. Do I arrange with Land Registry to transfer the property into our names, or can we leave this until it is sold and transfer it into the name of the buyer?

The property has been left empty for over 12 years and requires substantial repairs and renovation of the kitchen and bathroom before it becomes habitable. One of my brothers, who has been in the building trade all his life, would like to spend some of his inheritance to renovate the property and sell it later. I and my other brother are happy for him to do this and are willing to take a third each of the average price of the property (£45k) as it stands. We have agreed that the brother carrying out the work would receive the amount it sells for after renovation less the £30k owed to the other beneficiaries.

 In respect of the plans for the property, how does it affect such things as Council Tax, Capital Gains tax and dealings with the Land Registry?

As regards a template for layout and presentation of estate accounts the rather simplistic one below might assist -

https://qlaw.co.uk/services/power-of-attorney/probate-downloads/

I must point out its not something  I would ever contemplate using professionally especially since it is unhelpful for estates in receipt of taxable income and gains during the estate administration period as well as not addressing aspects such as accrued income at  date of death, IHT and any amendments thereto ,during the admin period.

However, for the mass of people with very simple estates below the IHT threshold and no grasp of the principles of double entry book keeping and how to compile a formal  income account, capital account and balance sheet/distribution account, it maybe suitable.

Certainly, the format seems be indicative of what many low level non STEP qualified solicitor firms who do not use professional estate accounting  software from the likes of Troika and Wealthworks, are capable of producing.

OP, given the very modest value of the estate property you quoted ( £40 -50k), it seems this is a very small estate that will not require a  more sophisticated estate accounting approach.

The estate is very simple and there's no IHT to pay.  I had already put the numbers into the calculator before applying for probate.

I did the simple conveyancing paperwork for her to buy her house from the Local Authority that is the property in question.Therefore, I have in my possession the Land Registry Land Certificate that contains the Title Number. I've also had dealings with The Land Registry in the past and found them very helpful.

The figures quoted for the property were the lowest and highest quoted by 3 separate Estate Agents and it was a representative of one of these who suggested to my brother it would be worthwhile to repair and renovate it for a substantial profit. I'll make enquiries of the Council concerned as you suggest and, if there's a favourable timescale, my instinct would be to transfer the property to him and let him get on with it. I'll make sure he knows to keep detailed costs of the work concerned to, hopefully, prevent any arguments later.

Thanks anyway for your valuable advice.

No need to transfer the house to builder brother for him to work on it, I'd leave it as it is.

Will you all put something in the kitty to pay for the works, or will builder brother pay for it himself and then be reimbursed later?

Savvy_Sue

Whatever you do, get the agreement written up and signed by the three of you. Maybe include timescales for payout to those relinquishing the house.

For example, builder brother anticipates work will take 6 months, and sale maybe 3, so other brothers think great, £15k within a year. Only BB takes a year, runs out of money, can't finish, can't sell, can't pay you ...