hoping for advice on buying a house that needs underpinning

54cornishgirl

I'm buying a house which has subsidence, I know it's going to need a lot of work but it's in a place where I really want to live and it's inexpensive because it's in a such a state.  I'm aware that it could be very risky but I've decided to go ahead with it so now I'm looking for contractors.  I've really struggled to find an underpining company; it's not a huge house and I realise it's not a very lucrative contract but I have found what looks to be a suitable company and I have a written estimate from them detailing the work and the schedule of payments.  I'd assumed that they would give me a contract - including who is responsible for the permissions that are needed, confirmation about their liability insurance, timescale of the work, what the process is if there is if the project goes over the estimated costs, what happens if there is any dispute about the quality of the work etc - but that doesn't seem to be forthcoming.  I could use a template like the JCT minor works contract or the RIBA domestic building contract but the contractor says that would incur a 10% addition to their fee.  I suppose I have two questions in case anyone has been through this before and could advise me; is it normal or safe not to have a contract for underpinning work and is it reasonable for a company to add on 10% if I use a pro-forma contract like the JCT or RIBA ones?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated, this really feels like a huge step.

theartfullodger

Good luck,...,.......

Slinky

It was done long before we bought our house, but I do know that Building Control were involved to oversee the works.

Chief_of_Staffy

10%? Sounds like they don't want to enter into such a contract but are willing to give it a go if you cross their clay-encrusted palms with silver. Maybe they'd be justified in adding £500 to the total cost, but if they're asking for several thousand (which is surely what 10% would be) then I'd recommend avoiding them. Their work might turn out great, but if they themselves don't have confidence in it then that's a concern.

The place I just moved into needs a full renovation but I drew the line at underpinning, which is why the only prior assessment I got was a structural survey specifically to discount that possibility (happily the large cracks, bulges and alarming undulations are the results only of appalling workmanship and decades of neglect).

No idea what your situation is, but if there's a full renovation and underpinning you might want to consider knocking the whole thing down and rebuilding. If you can afford the initial outlay it's likely you'll be better off.

eddddy

Who has drawn up the specification for the underpinning work that needs to be done?

I'd have thought the sensible approach would be to instruct a Structural Engineer to write the specification, advise you on which contractor to use (ideally one they have worked with before), and then inspect the work as it is being done, to ensure it's done correctly.  And deal with building regulations and building control sign-off, etc.


If you haven't instructed a Structural Engineer (or equivalent), that may be why you're finding it difficult to get contractors to quote. Reputable contractors might only want to deal with a professional Structural Engineer, or similar.





Edit to add...

There's also the issue that it sounds like you're asking for contractors to quote before you've bought the house.

A lot of contractors would be nervous about investing their time and effort in quoting - because you might not even buy the house, let alone hire them to do the work.

And/or you might just be gathering quotes as 'free' evidence to help you negotiate a lower purchase price, instead of paying for professional surveys/investigations. So you're just looking around for the highest quotes, rather than looking for a contractor to do the work.

54cornishgirl

Thank you for these comments and apologies that I've not replied before.  I've found another underpinning company that is willing to give a 10 year insurance backed guarantee so I'm going with them.  I'd already had two structural surveys done before I started to look the underpinning guys - being nervous of basing such a lot of work on just one opinion - but I found it really hard to find an underpinning company that seemed trustworthy and recommendations were not easy to come by.  I'm hoping that I've now got a route to getting the work done - a structural engineer to do the underpinning design, a builder to do the stripping out of floors (and staircase, which I hadn't expected having to do), applications to building control and for party wall agreements and then the underpinning company comes in a few months down the line.   Fingers crossed it might work.  Thank you for all your advice.

BikingBud

If the plot is good but the house is poor build, poor insulation, poor layout and has structural issues what is the value of underpinning? How much will you put into it after the work has been completed, new kitchen, new bathroom, outdated and inefficient heating system, redecoration, they are all costs that do not fundamentally improve the building.

I'm with @Chief_of_Staffy but don't know enough about the property or your longer term intentions or funding.

54cornishgirl said:

I'm buying a house which has subsidence, I know it's going to need a lot of work but it's in a place where I really want to live and it's inexpensive because it's in a such a state.  .

So you see yourself staying there for a long time perhaps forever?

Would it be better to consider the whole and start again and build a house that might initially appear expensive but with modern energy efficiency might cost very little to run, it will suit your changing requirements as you grow older and provide the most cost-effective long-term solution.

Section62

BikingBud said:

...
Would it be better to consider the whole and start again and build a house that might initially appear expensive but with modern energy efficiency might cost very little to run, it will suit your changing requirements as you grow older and provide the most cost-effective long-term solution.

The OP's mention of "for party wall agreements" might imply that complete demolition and rebuild could be more complicated than it may first appear.

BikingBud

I missed that likely while considering my post.

Does the subsidence affect the adjacent property including the party wall?

We have a party wall for the end garage in a 3 garage block, that was removed by our predecessors to provide space for an extension. The piers remain on our land to sustain the garage wall so things are always possible.

I accept that there might be complications but if options are not fully explored, and we see frequently that is the case with poorly conceived extensions, I live with one, then sub-optimal solutions might be selected. 

I would prompt a short exploration of the boundaries, literally and figuratively, of what could be achieved and the costs. It might throw up some surprising results.

54cornishgirl

I'm intending this to be my 'forever' home although the horizon of forever is necessarily foreshortened by my advancing age!  I don't really want a rebuild, it wouldn't suit what I'm looking for, and I accept that the amount I'm going to plough into for the work wouldn't be realised if I sold it.  Essesntially it's a pretty cottage that I'd be very happy live in - or will be when I can get the foundations stablised - and I'm hoping that the various contractors I'm engaging are reasonably reliable.  

My next trick is trying to find insurance cover - not including subsidence obviously - for fire and accidental damage.  It's tricky when I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be living there while the work is done, it's hard to answer the questions truthfully when you don't know how liveable it's going to be.

Thank you for all your comments, this is a great forum.

Herzlos

I'd second getting a quote to demolish and rebuild; it might not be much more expensive than the renovation work and will give you a much better house. 

I'm of course assuming you'd be able to get a mortgage lender happy with that, and you'd have somewhere else to live for the time it takes.