Executor refusing to distribute estate

topbanana1985

Hi all, me again, and yes I'm still (coming up to 12 years) having issues with the executor/administrator of my mum's estate. 

Right, for those who don't know the background, from previous posts/treads, long story short (well, as short as I can make almost 12 years worth of troubles), the executor who was a solicitor (he's retired now, since it's been so long) refused to renounce and hired his own firm to administer the estate.
We (my younger siblings and I) are all beneficiaries and have had no end of issues with the executor/his firm, with countless mistakes, several complaints (to the firm, the legal ombudsman and the SRA) and their blatant abuse of their position of power.


We have asked the executor/administrator to provide us with documentation which supports what they have written in the estate accounts, because there are a number of mistakes within the estate accounts, such as typos, incorrect info and £200 that seems to have disappeared. These are just the issues that we know of, I dread to think of the errors and issues that we are unaware of, hence our requests for supporting documentation.

We have requested this 6 times, but each time, it was refused. Which makes us even more suspicious of what they are trying to hide from us.

The executor/administrator is also demanding that we sign a document to say that we have received the estate accounts and will receive an amount, as the residual estate payment.

We have told them that we are not legally required to sign it, and also  been advised not to sign it, since it states "residual" and we have no idea if it is the residual, as they refuse to provide any documentation proving such.
They even admitted themselves, that us signing this document is "not a statutory requirement" 
But they are refusing to distribute the estate until we do sign it.
(Surely this is blackmail, isn't it?)

So, I went to another solicitor, to do an "inventory and accounts" request with the probate court, in order to try and obtain the supporting documentation, for the estate accounts.
Almost a year and over £3,500 later, the court have said that "supporting documents are not a requirement for an inventory and account of the state"
So basically executors/administrators can make up any old BS, claim it's the estate accounts and the beneficiaries are forced to accept it.

The court said that if I wish to make an administration claim, it needs to be done in the chancery court.

I've already wasted £3,500+ for this application to fail/be denied. I can't afford to keep paying out for court and solicitors, just to obtain what is rightfully and legally mine. I had to use my credit card to pay that £3,500, because I don't have any money just sitting around, not even any savings.
It's not even a big amount of inheritance either, it's only about £1,200.

And before you all say it, yes, I know, I know, throwing away good money after bad, it's a silly thing to do, but for me, it's not all about the money. I refuse to just lay down and let the executor/administrator get away Scott free, because I know that they will just go and do it again to someone else (I've heard a number of complaints about them, but no one is willing to go up against them, purely because they are solicitors). 

Is there anything more I can do? Or am I going to be forced to just give up and sign that document?

Grumpy_chap

topbanana1985 said:

Hi all, me again, and yes I'm still (coming up to 12 years) having issues with the executor/administrator of my mum's estate. 

Right, for those who don't know the background, from previous posts/treads, long story short (well, as short as I can make almost 12 years worth of troubles), the executor who was a solicitor (he's retired now, since it's been so long) refused to renounce and hired his own firm to administer the estate.
We (my younger siblings and I) are all beneficiaries and have had no end of issues with the executor/his firm, with countless mistakes, several complaints (to the firm, the legal ombudsman and the SRA) and their blatant abuse of their position of power.


We have asked the executor/administrator to provide us with documentation which supports what they have written in the estate accounts, because there are a number of mistakes within the estate accounts, such as typos, incorrect info and £200 that seems to have disappeared. These are just the issues that we know of, I dread to think of the errors and issues that we are unaware of, hence our requests for supporting documentation.

We have requested this 6 times, but each time, it was refused. Which makes us even more suspicious of what they are trying to hide from us.

The executor/administrator is also demanding that we sign a document to say that we have received the estate accounts and will receive an amount, as the residual estate payment.

We have told them that we are not legally required to sign it, and also  been advised not to sign it, since it states "residual" and we have no idea if it is the residual, as they refuse to provide any documentation proving such.
They even admitted themselves, that us signing this document is "not a statutory requirement" 
But they are refusing to distribute the estate until we do sign it.
(Surely this is blackmail, isn't it?)

So, I went to another solicitor, to do an "inventory and accounts" request with the probate court, in order to try and obtain the supporting documentation, for the estate accounts.
Almost a year and over £3,500 later, the court have said that "supporting documents are not a requirement for an inventory and account of the state"
So basically executors/administrators can make up any old BS, claim it's the estate accounts and the beneficiaries are forced to accept it.

The court said that if I wish to make an administration claim, it needs to be done in the chancery court.

I've already wasted £3,500+ for this application to fail/be denied. I can't afford to keep paying out for court and solicitors, just to obtain what is rightfully and legally mine. I had to use my credit card to pay that £3,500, because I don't have any money just sitting around, not even any savings.
It's not even a big amount of inheritance either, it's only about £1,200.

And before you all say it, yes, I know, I know, throwing away good money after bad, it's a silly thing to do, but for me, it's not all about the money. I refuse to just lay down and let the executor/administrator get away Scott free, because I know that they will just go and do it again to someone else (I've heard a number of complaints about them, but no one is willing to go up against them, purely because they are solicitors). 

Is there anything more I can do? Or am I going to be forced to just give up and sign that document?

After 12 years with a legal firm involved, is there any Estate remaining?
What sort of value was the original Estate?

Are the values you have quoted correct, i.e. in £'s or is there a 'k' missing after each entry, so "£200" should read "£200k"?

sheenas

 It may be appropriate to apply to the Court for the removal and replacement of the executor or administrator. The same applies to circumstances where the executor, administrator or trustee are treating the assets of the estate as if they were their own and for their own benefit. 

topbanana1985

Grumpy_chap said:

topbanana1985 said:

Hi all, me again, and yes I'm still (coming up to 12 years) having issues with the executor/administrator of my mum's estate. 

Right, for those who don't know the background, from previous posts/treads, long story short (well, as short as I can make almost 12 years worth of troubles), the executor who was a solicitor (he's retired now, since it's been so long) refused to renounce and hired his own firm to administer the estate.
We (my younger siblings and I) are all beneficiaries and have had no end of issues with the executor/his firm, with countless mistakes, several complaints (to the firm, the legal ombudsman and the SRA) and their blatant abuse of their position of power.


We have asked the executor/administrator to provide us with documentation which supports what they have written in the estate accounts, because there are a number of mistakes within the estate accounts, such as typos, incorrect info and £200 that seems to have disappeared. These are just the issues that we know of, I dread to think of the errors and issues that we are unaware of, hence our requests for supporting documentation.

We have requested this 6 times, but each time, it was refused. Which makes us even more suspicious of what they are trying to hide from us.

The executor/administrator is also demanding that we sign a document to say that we have received the estate accounts and will receive an amount, as the residual estate payment.

We have told them that we are not legally required to sign it, and also  been advised not to sign it, since it states "residual" and we have no idea if it is the residual, as they refuse to provide any documentation proving such.
They even admitted themselves, that us signing this document is "not a statutory requirement" 
But they are refusing to distribute the estate until we do sign it.
(Surely this is blackmail, isn't it?)

So, I went to another solicitor, to do an "inventory and accounts" request with the probate court, in order to try and obtain the supporting documentation, for the estate accounts.
Almost a year and over £3,500 later, the court have said that "supporting documents are not a requirement for an inventory and account of the state"
So basically executors/administrators can make up any old BS, claim it's the estate accounts and the beneficiaries are forced to accept it.

The court said that if I wish to make an administration claim, it needs to be done in the chancery court.

I've already wasted £3,500+ for this application to fail/be denied. I can't afford to keep paying out for court and solicitors, just to obtain what is rightfully and legally mine. I had to use my credit card to pay that £3,500, because I don't have any money just sitting around, not even any savings.
It's not even a big amount of inheritance either, it's only about £1,200.

And before you all say it, yes, I know, I know, throwing away good money after bad, it's a silly thing to do, but for me, it's not all about the money. I refuse to just lay down and let the executor/administrator get away Scott free, because I know that they will just go and do it again to someone else (I've heard a number of complaints about them, but no one is willing to go up against them, purely because they are solicitors). 

Is there anything more I can do? Or am I going to be forced to just give up and sign that document?

After 12 years with a legal firm involved, is there any Estate remaining?
What sort of value was the original Estate?

Are the values you have quoted correct, i.e. in £'s or is there a 'k' missing after each entry, so "£200" should read "£200k"?

Luckily the legal ombudsman have already limited the firms costs, so they are not allowed to charge anything anymore. So the firm is not gaining any money at all from refusing to distribute the estate.

And nope, no Ks involved, it is very low amounts, (that we know of).

topbanana1985

sheenas said:

 It may be appropriate to apply to the Court for the removal and replacement of the executor or administrator. The same applies to circumstances where the executor, administrator or trustee are treating the assets of the estate as if they were their own and for their own benefit. 

Thank you for the advice. This route has crossed my mind, the only problem with this is the cost, I've been told that it's going to cost tens of thousands to do this. Money which I certainly do not have unfortunately. 
(If they distributed the estate, I'd at least have £1,200 towards paying for it 🤣)

Marcon

topbanana1985 said:

And before you all say it, yes, I know, I know, throwing away good money after bad, it's a silly thing to do, but for me, it's not all about the money. I refuse to just lay down and let the executor/administrator get away Scott free, because I know that they will just go and do it again to someone else (I've heard a number of complaints about them, but no one is willing to go up against them, purely because they are solicitors). 

Is there anything more I can do? Or am I going to be forced to just give up and sign that document?

You are not responsible for what happens to other people. It's an excuse/reason I've heard many a time - and it's no more valid in this case than it is in any other. 

Continuing to post here isn't going to help you or these 'other people'. Have one last go at getting somewhere - try https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice/individuals/access-law-clinic (operates online only so doesn't matter where you physically live). Or try a decent investigative journalist - Tony Hetherington is excellent, as are some others. Or do both.

If that goes nowhere, take a few deep breaths, swallow hard and consider whether battling on is really a good use of the remaining time you have on this earth. 

SadCodeMan

Marcon said:

You are not responsible for what happens to other people. It's an excuse/reason I've heard many a time - and it's no more valid in this case than it is in any other. 

I am not arguing with your sentiment in this case but, I do think I don't agree with it in a general sense. if everyone (who can) tries to improve the world we live in then everyone (including yourself) enjoys a better world.

The bit doing the heavy lifting though is 'who can'. If you were in a position to be able to keeep on with this course of action without causing you mental or (unacceptable) financial impact, (and you wanted to) then I would say it was entirely right for you to do this and would be 100% behind you.

However, I think it sounds like that isn't the case. I think @Marcon's last line sums things up very well.
Don't let the rogue solicitor beat you a second time. Leave that to someone else and try to put it behind you while pating yourself on the back that you have tried to do everything you could have done in this case.

bobster2

SadCodeMan said:

Marcon said:

You are not responsible for what happens to other people. It's an excuse/reason I've heard many a time - and it's no more valid in this case than it is in any other. 

I am not arguing with your sentiment in this case but, I do think I don't agree with it in a general sense. if everyone (who can) tries to improve the world we live in then everyone (including yourself) enjoys a better world.

The bit doing the heavy lifting though is 'who can'. If you were in a position to be able to keeep on with this course of action without causing you mental or (unacceptable) financial impact, (and you wanted to) then I would say it was entirely right for you to do this and would be 100% behind you.

However, I think it sounds like that isn't the case. I think @Marcon's last line sums things up very well.
Don't let the rogue solicitor beat you a second time. Leave that to someone else and try to put it behind you while pating yourself on the back that you have tried to do everything you could have done in this case.

It is not at all clear that the solictor is "rogue". Slow and perhaps made some errors and now retired - but OP took a year and spent £3,500 just to find out that the solicitor had been right all along about what documents they did and did not need to supply.

Most of the delay seems to be due to the OP's reluctance to sign a document to confirm they have received the estate accounts - based on some suspicions and some points of principle.

From a previous thread - it seems the solicitor dealt with the property involved in this estate fairly promptly - and it's now just a small amount of cash left to distribute.

SadCodeMan

Sorry. Rash choice of words. I didn't really mean that to be the focus of what I was saying...

Marcon

SadCodeMan said:

Marcon said:

You are not responsible for what happens to other people. It's an excuse/reason I've heard many a time - and it's no more valid in this case than it is in any other. 

I am not arguing with your sentiment in this case but, I do think I don't agree with it in a general sense. if everyone (who can) tries to improve the world we live in then everyone (including yourself) enjoys a better world.

To be clear, my comment was very much case specific. People in this sort of situation often prop up their actions by claiming it is for the greater good, rather than sitting back and recognising that what they are doing isn't going to have that sort of impact.

It's also regularly trotted out when what people really mean is they are seeking compensation but want to do so under a nobler banner (not applicable here).

topbanana1985

Marcon said:

topbanana1985 said:

And before you all say it, yes, I know, I know, throwing away good money after bad, it's a silly thing to do, but for me, it's not all about the money. I refuse to just lay down and let the executor/administrator get away Scott free, because I know that they will just go and do it again to someone else (I've heard a number of complaints about them, but no one is willing to go up against them, purely because they are solicitors). 

Is there anything more I can do? Or am I going to be forced to just give up and sign that document?

You are not responsible for what happens to other people. It's an excuse/reason I've heard many a time - and it's no more valid in this case than it is in any other. 

Continuing to post here isn't going to help you or these 'other people'. Have one last go at getting somewhere - try https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice/individuals/access-law-clinic (operates online only so doesn't matter where you physically live). Or try a decent investigative journalist - Tony Hetherington is excellent, as are some others. Or do both.

If that goes nowhere, take a few deep breaths, swallow hard and consider whether battling on is really a good use of the remaining time you have on this earth. 

Thank you for the info regarding journalist and the law link.