Universal Credit Finances Interview

Spoonie_Turtle

Even if he doesn't qualify for ESA payments he probably sould open a claim for NI credits.  That will preserve his LCWRA 'status' and will mean he won't automatically need to be assessed again if/when he (reasonably) spends money on living and can reclaim UC when he drops down below the £16k threshold.

Grumpy_chap

I find this thread a bit confusing - perhaps because it is posted by the OP on behalf of their brother.

How long has the OP's brother been claiming UC?

Something seems a bit odd / inconsistent from the elements I have picked up from the thread:

• OP's brother worked part time at Asda earning a low income (usually below the tax threshold) but did not spend much of it and saved it into Asda shares
• The Asda (Walmart) shares have now been discovered as part of a UC review and are £25k - £30k in value.
• This alone is well-above the upper savings threshold for UC (but may not always have been depending on the price movement in the shares).
• In addition the OP's brother has ISA savings (no value indicated).
• About 5 years ago, the OP's brother gave the OP "some money" towards a house deposit.  How much was this please?
• Was this within the OP's brother's UC claim?
• Assuming the money towards a house deposit was a meaningful sum (not just a few £ house-warming gift), it can hardly come as a surprise to the OP / OP's brother / Mum to just now find out that the OP's brother has some funds.
• How did the OP's brother, who only earned below the income tax threshold, come to have this money to gift to the OP as a house deposit?
• The OP suggests that the OP's brother could gift the OP some money to allow the OP to overpay the OP's mortgage.  This would certainly be deprivation of assets and the OP's brother would still be assessed as having the capital.
• The OP then suggests that, because repayment of debt is never deprivation of assets, the OP's brother could gift the OP £8k to clear the £8k of credit card debt that the OP has.  I think the "repayment of debt is never deprivation of assets" needs to be qualified that it has to be the individual's own debt, not just gifting the money to anyone else to repay a third-parties debt.  What has been suggested would not be repayment of debt, but would be a gift to the OP - hence deprivation of assets.

There are possibly some big gaps in this account. 
While I understand the OP's desire to assist their brother and Mum (as brother's Appointee), it may be best if the OP allows the Mum and Brother to resolve this alone.
Mum needs to fully understand the OP's brothers finances - all forms of income and all assets.
The OP only seems to have proffered suggestions that seem heavily weighted in the OP's best interest and not necessarily those of the OP's brother (accepting a house deposit from the low-paid brother, proposal for a gift to clear the OP's mortgage and / or gift to clear the OP's CC debt).  This might all be the OP engaging in creative thinking to maintain the wider family income level but it could also appear as though there is some financial manipulation.

itsthelittlethings

He is not allowed to give you money, don’t be ludicrous.

Your mum needs to put a note in his journal referencing the review and that she forgot the shares ASAP. She should state the estimated amount in £ and that it is an estimate. Does she have any reference numbers from letters or anything.

Do not make a bad situation worse by trying to get some money.

Altior

More than likely the sharesave scheme, eg this article from 2011.

HR Magazine - 14,700 Asda staff to pocket £49 million in shares

QrizB

Walmart shares have roughly doubled in dollar value over the past 24 months:

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/wmt

Historic dividend info is here:

https://www.dividendmax.com/united-states/nyse/food-and-drug-retailers/walmart-inc/dividends

8dayweek

Grumpy_chap said:

I find this thread a bit confusing - perhaps because it is posted by the OP on behalf of their brother.

How long has the OP's brother been claiming UC?

Something seems a bit odd / inconsistent from the elements I have picked up from the thread:

• OP's brother worked part time at Asda earning a low income (usually below the tax threshold) but did not spend much of it and saved it into Asda shares
• The Asda (Walmart) shares have now been discovered as part of a UC review and are £25k - £30k in value.
• This alone is well-above the upper savings threshold for UC (but may not always have been depending on the price movement in the shares).
• In addition the OP's brother has ISA savings (no value indicated).
• About 5 years ago, the OP's brother gave the OP "some money" towards a house deposit.  How much was this please?
• Was this within the OP's brother's UC claim?
• Assuming the money towards a house deposit was a meaningful sum (not just a few £ house-warming gift), it can hardly come as a surprise to the OP / OP's brother / Mum to just now find out that the OP's brother has some funds.
• How did the OP's brother, who only earned below the income tax threshold, come to have this money to gift to the OP as a house deposit?
• The OP suggests that the OP's brother could gift the OP some money to allow the OP to overpay the OP's mortgage.  This would certainly be deprivation of assets and the OP's brother would still be assessed as having the capital.
• The OP then suggests that, because repayment of debt is never deprivation of assets, the OP's brother could gift the OP £8k to clear the £8k of credit card debt that the OP has.  I think the "repayment of debt is never deprivation of assets" needs to be qualified that it has to be the individual's own debt, not just gifting the money to anyone else to repay a third-parties debt.  What has been suggested would not be repayment of debt, but would be a gift to the OP - hence deprivation of assets.

There are possibly some big gaps in this account. 
While I understand the OP's desire to assist their brother and Mum (as brother's Appointee), it may be best if the OP allows the Mum and Brother to resolve this alone.
Mum needs to fully understand the OP's brothers finances - all forms of income and all assets.
The OP only seems to have proffered suggestions that seem heavily weighted in the OP's best interest and not necessarily those of the OP's brother (accepting a house deposit from the low-paid brother, proposal for a gift to clear the OP's mortgage and / or gift to clear the OP's CC debt).  This might all be the OP engaging in creative thinking to maintain the wider family income level but it could also appear as though there is some financial manipulation.

^ This. With bells on. 

Undisclosed capital is likely to result in the requirement to provide bank statements for all accounts dating back to the start of the UC claim. 

You certainly should not be thinking up creative ways to spend your Brother’s money as the likelihood is he’s about to have a significant overpayment, and thus his own legitimate debt to repay. 

Chrysalis

My thoughts are on this.

Be honest with the DWP, they heavily do take this into account.  They may recognise its a genuine mistake if you hold nothing back in these discussions.
(overpayment will have to be paid back either way, but what you dont want is a prosecution, additional fine or a fraud marker)

Dont start doing anything now that could be seen as deprivation of capital such as getting rid of the shares quickly.  Best to leave it alone whilst all this is going on, and if you do anything in the future on it, declare it to the DWP.