Freezer tripping electrics?

victor2

ka7e said:

As a previous poster recommended, I got up and switched off the freezer at 6.30am. Heating came on at 8. Electrics all working, nothing tripped. 

Now switch it back on, if you haven't already, and see if the problem comes back at a different time. In all probability, it has a timer, not an actual clock, to trigger it's anti-frost cycle.

WIAWSNB

ka7e said:

WIAWSNB

It's a Beko FFEP5791. Apparently they do have a built-in clock to do a regular defrost cycle. If it trips at 7am, maybe it "thinks" it has then fulfilled that requirement and so the cycle repeats at the same time? 

I previously had the same model and it tripped every morning from the day it was installed - it was replaced, no questions asked, in a week. This new one was fine until about 8 days ago when the problem restarted. Speaking to my electrician at the time, he said he had the same problem with a different make of freezer, but it took him months of troubleshooting to find the source of the problem!

My Hive is not set in the anticipatory mode.

Thanks.

Do you have the instructions for that freezer? What does it say about the frost-free function and how it works? Does it mention '24-hour' cycles? Does it 'warn' about noises, for example, during this process? (My Hotpoint FF releases an astonishing range of squeaks and groans.)

If there's nothing obvious there, then perhaps an email to Beko to ask if the system really does run a regular 24 hour cycle. And, if so, whether resetting it for mid-afternoon will mean it'll continue from then. 

But, worth a temporary unplug mid-afa in any case. 

Section62

victor2 said:

ka7e said:

As a previous poster recommended, I got up and switched off the freezer at 6.30am. Heating came on at 8. Electrics all working, nothing tripped. 

Now switch it back on, if you haven't already, and see if the problem comes back at a different time. In all probability, it has a timer, not an actual clock, to trigger it's anti-frost cycle.

It could be a simple timer, but I wouldn't be shocked to discover it was a clock.  RTC (even with MSF correction) modules are cheap as chips, and I guess implementing RTC in a digital freezer control system for mass production might cost not much more than pence per unit vs a basic timer control.  Especially as there is no particular need for battery backup (possibly the most expensive element in RTC) because if the power is off the unit won't be anti-frosting anyway, and if the RTC drifts away from actual time then it still won't be less accurate for the functionality than a simple 24hr timer would be.

ka7e

victor2 said:

Now switch it back on, if you haven't already, and see if the problem comes back at a different time. In all probability, it has a timer, not an actual clock, to trigger it's anti-frost cycle.

Switched back on at 8am after CH kicked in. When it's been tripping previously, the power has often been off for a couple of hours (we are pensioners and not early risers!) and it hasn't changed the time that it trips.

WIAWSNB

ka7e said:

Switched back on at 8am after CH kicked in. When it's been tripping previously, the power has often been off for a couple of hours (we are pensioners and not early risers!) and it hasn't changed the time that it trips.

Interesting.

So it appears to either have a 'clock', in which case the morning time slot seems a bit bonkers, or else it has a 'timer' which refuses to budge (backed-up?), or else it has nothing to do with the freezer.

There, I hope that narrows it down :-(

I'd be surprised if a timer of any type were involved - I'd have thought they'd be smart enough to know when to defrost? I think my Hotpoint is 'random'. 

Ask Beko? 

Heedtheadvice

From what you have written so far it seems to be associated with the freezer but that is not necessarily the cause of the trip.

This is a long post ( ignore if you wish) but it might explain what is happening, why and what to do!

Despite what has been written in this thread RCDs are not bonkers, they are generally very stable in their performance with not much variability at all between them, usually trip at a 30mA fault current, the more sensitive spec ones ( such as 15mA ones) are not  used much domestically as they are then too sensitive and that becomes a nuisance.

They are a safety device and you are right not to ignore the tripping. They are there for protection. Their test button should used periodicity to ensure they trip when they should.

They work (trip) when the current in the live and neutral wires is not balanced on the whole circuit they are protecting.The assumption being that if live does not equal neutral then the current is going elsewhere such as to 'earth' via the wiring or through another route such as dampness or a body I.e. a leakage of current. That leakage current level  is not usually enough to blow a fuse but is enough to give you a shock!

Thus if the the whole circuit leakage exceeds the RCD tripping spec even for a very short time it will trip. So all the wiring and devices connected, but not necessarily switched on, add to the whole leakage current.

 [It really is low insulation resistance that causes the leakage ( or motor starter capacitors) of whatever cause that creates the imbalance but probably easiest to just think in terms of current leakage.]

It could be as has been posted that there is a generally high level of leakage alteady on that circuit and the freezer action ( or something else) is adding just enough to exceed the spec on the circuit and trip.

Also as posted motors/ compressors etc can have high starting currents at switch on with a slight imbalance for a short time producing a high leakage. Also heaters ( e.g.to dry things) work in a damp environment can be problematic at times and lots of kitchen devices (like you have) can work in damp environments. Consider they all have an average leakage equivalent to 3mA and you have nine operating you just need on to switch with an extra 5mA to cause a trip.

There is often a continuous leakage and a variable leakage at say switching times such as you might be experiencing with the freezer or heating.

You have some things you could do mentioned in posts such as disconnection ( plug removal) items not in use in case they are adding sufficient leakage (or have an overly high amount that is the main cause ) or by moving them if you can to a circuit that is not on the part of the consumer unit that is tripping.

However that might prove nothing and an insulation measurement ought to be done on the circuits by an electrician. That would give a good measure of the overall issue without devices and with devices connected to ensure it is collectively low leakage with plenty of headroom for the odd bit of switching. The latter dynamic  can be more difficult to measure and is sometimes beyond the scope of an electrician or his equipment. I would not expect an overly sensitive RCD to be the problem.

As an aside, at home a bread maker was the cause of an intermittent trip when moisture from the bread mix got onto the heating element oven heating elements burning out will often cause a trip but after that all seems well again!

ka7e

Now totally flummoxed! Turned freezer off at 6.30. Power tripped at 7.30. The only things that might have powered up at that time are heater set at 13 degrees and towel rail (16 degrees) in downstairs shower room. They are both on separate thermostats, not timers and have their own isolation switch Humidity is 46% in there, so no damp issues.

It's the precise timing that is so confusing...and why didn't it trip yesterday am?

Other circuits on that half of the RCD are solar panels, upstairs shower, upstairs lighting, smoke alarm, CH (on timer + thermostat to come on at 8am) and downstairs sockets.

Scrounger

ka7e said:

Now totally flummoxed! Turned freezer off at 6.30. Power tripped at 7.30. The only things that might have powered up at that time are heater set at 13 degrees and towel rail (16 degrees) in downstairs shower room. They are both on separate thermostats, not timers and have their own isolation switch Humidity is 46% in there, so no damp issues.

It's the precise timing that is so confusing...and why didn't it trip yesterday am?

Other circuits on that half of the RCD are solar panels, upstairs shower, upstairs lighting, smoke alarm, CH (on timer + thermostat to come on at 8am) and downstairs sockets.

IMO, the next logical step would be to replace the RCD.  Or engage an electrician.


Scrounger

WIAWSNB

ka7e said:

Now totally flummoxed! Turned freezer off at 6.30. Power tripped at 7.30. The only things that might have powered up at that time are heater set at 13 degrees and towel rail (16 degrees) in downstairs shower room. They are both on separate thermostats, not timers and have their own isolation switch Humidity is 46% in there, so no damp issues.

It's the precise timing that is so confusing...and why didn't it trip yesterday am?

Other circuits on that half of the RCD are solar panels, upstairs shower, upstairs lighting, smoke alarm, CH (on timer + thermostat to come on at 8am) and downstairs sockets.

Ah PV  

My ol' Aurora inverter caused trips on first startup that drove me bonkers until I replaced it. The actual start-up time will vary from day to day whilst still being in that ballpark, as it depends on the PV generating a few Watts first - that's what brings it to life and it connects to the grid - 'pop'. 

Can you recall the times on each day - was it earlier on bright or cloudless days?

You can isolate the inverter by turning off the AC switch. You won't lose out - just wait until 9am or so, and turn it back on. Watch the display - "Connecting to grid...25 seconds..." It's quite exciting :-(

Oh, and also note the 'Riso' readings as it goes through the initialising process - note the figure(s) down. 

Section62

ka7e said:

Now totally flummoxed! Turned freezer off at 6.30. Power tripped at 7.30. The only things that might have powered up at that time are heater set at 13 degrees and towel rail (16 degrees) in downstairs shower room. They are both on separate thermostats, not timers and have their own isolation switch Humidity is 46% in there, so no damp issues.

It's the precise timing that is so confusing...and why didn't it trip yesterday am?

Other circuits on that half of the RCD are solar panels, upstairs shower, upstairs lighting, smoke alarm, CH (on timer + thermostat to come on at 8am) and downstairs sockets.

Turned off, or unplugged?  To trace the cause of tripping the appliance needs to fully isolated from the supply, as it is possible for enough current to flow through the neutral wire to earth to cause the RCD to trip.  If the freezer is just turned off without the neutral connection also being isolated then the fault could still occur. (if the issue was something like a clock/timer triggering the anti-frost, then backup power or charged capacitors could be enough to momentarily close a relay or similar)

Can the solar panels be fully isolated?