Heated Windscreens and the "Ford Patent"

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Not really moneysaving, just a question that I can't answer even via google & duckduckgo.

Supposedly the reason that most cars didn't have heated winscreeens is "because Ford patented it"

Now, reseach via t'nterweb suggests that this was around 1980, as it expired in 2005.

But what exactly did Ford patent? It must have been some niche application or material, as Land Rover offered heated windscreen panels for the series IIA and later III from 1967, using the "thin wires in the glass" that Ford used, and I definitely travelled on 'buses back in the 1970s that used it.

(Aircraft had heated windscreens from the 1940s, initially using a metallised film over the glass.)

Maybe it was use in a curved screen that they actually patented, as the LandRover and bus ones were flat, but my late father's 1967 Rover P6 had a "wires in the glass" rear screen that was very curved.

Obviously, this won't answer why they didn't appear across all makes from 2005 either, which presumably is cost.

kimwp

I don't know, but just because something is patented doesn't mean it's not used elsewhere, it means you have to get an agreement/license from the patent owner.

Goudy

I seem to think Ford held the patent on the fine wire mesh system that was part of the laminate between the two pieces of glass. They called it Quickclear.

Other systems used things stuck on the inside/outside of the glass rather than laminated in it.

I think the patent has expired but don't forget, Ford owed other brands like Jaguar/Land Rover at the time they launched this, so it ended up on those models and of course they may well have sold a license for other manufacturers to use it. 

I had it on a Jag and it was a pain when it was dark and wet. It seems to cause oncoming headlights to dazzle and splinter off the wires.

TadleyBaggie

I have a Nissan with a quick clear type windscreen, I can see the fine elements.

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Goudy said:

I seem to think Ford held the patent on the fine wire mesh system that was part of the laminate between the two pieces of glass. They called it Quickclear.

Other systems used things stuck on the inside/outside of the glass rather than laminated in it.

I think the patent has expired but don't forget, Ford owed other brands like Jaguar/Land Rover at the time they launched this, so it ended up on those models and of course they may well have sold a license for other manufacturers to use it. 

I had it on a Jag and it was a pain when it was dark and wet. It seems to cause oncoming headlights to dazzle and splinter off the wires.

Yes, but Ford didn't own Land Rover in the 1960s, and I'm not a patent Lawyer, but I didn't think you could patent something that was already in use (or I'm patenting the wheel ), the P6 rear screen from 1967 (he got it in 1970) and the buses I rode back in the 1970s most definitely used fine wiggly wires in the glass with like a silver tape joining them at the top, and another pair of tapes at the bottom separated in the middle and L shaped that took the tape went down to the lower edge of the glass and presumably out to make the connections. I can't vouch for the actual 1967 Land Rover offering, but the panels I saw in Craddocks in the 1980s were the same. 

It must have been some nuance in the construction method, a special material, or a specific application that they patented, but the information isn't available- I can't even find the patent number.

Which of course doesn't explain why no-one else could use the Land Rover method, any patent they had, or the patent they licensed would have expired before the 1990s. 

I've only ever bought 3 brand new unregistered cars, and I'd happily have paid another couple of hundred for a heated windscreen if the option had been available when I ordered them, but I'm probably in a group of 1 and everyone else really wanted the white instrument faces and driving lights that I couldn't care less about! 

MyRealNameToo

facade said:

Not really moneysaving, just a question that I can't answer even via google & duckduckgo.

Supposedly the reason that most cars didn't have heated winscreeens is "because Ford patented it"

Now, reseach via t'nterweb suggests that this was around 1980, as it expired in 2005.

But what exactly did Ford patent? It must have been some niche application or material, as Land Rover offered heated windscreen panels for the series IIA and later III from 1967, using the "thin wires in the glass" that Ford used, and I definitely travelled on 'buses back in the 1970s that used it.

(Aircraft had heated windscreens from the 1940s, initially using a metallised film over the glass.)

Maybe it was use in a curved screen that they actually patented, as the LandRover and bus ones were flat, but my late father's 1967 Rover P6 had a "wires in the glass" rear screen that was very curved.

Obviously, this won't answer why they didn't appear across all makes from 2005 either, which presumably is cost.

A patent covers the "how", you are free to come up with another way of trying to achieve the same goal whilst your competitor holds a patent and you can also licence the solution from them. For certain things considered systemic there are rules about the fees that can be charged. Patents trade hands too, there are specialist companies that do nothing other than buy others patents and then licence them (and protect them). 

Generally patents are available online... https://patents.google.com/patent/US2885709A/en?q=windshield+heater&assignee=Ford+Motor+Company&oq=(windscreen)+assignee:(Ford+Motor+Company) is a Ford patent for windscreen wipers in 1955 to deal with the fact screens were more commonly becoming curved and the previous fixed straight wipers weren't coping. 

You obviously get legal battles when someone claims to have come up with a new how but the original patent holder thinks its just a tweak on their IP not a new idea and then the lawyers earn their money battling it out. 

Companies patent tons of stuff, some never becomes real and other not for years. On a photography website I read occasionally there are frequent posts of the latest patent from Canon on a new camera lens etc. Nestle/Nespresso is another interesting one because it was patented long time ago but not used for a few decades. The explosion of "compatible" pods shows the patent expired a while back though Nestle did initially try to argue it hadn't. 

Can't say why more cars dont have a heated front windscreen... maybe it's too expensive to make compared to what people are willing to pay for it. Maybe too much impact on replacement windscreen prices 

mebu60

A brief history of the heated windscreen | Hagerty UK
Para 12 references Ford and its patent (for a particular application of the the technology). 

On my previous Jaguar and on current Fords (Focus and Fiesta) the thingy for using on French toll roads has to be placed in a precise spot on the windscreen behind the rear view mirror otherwise it won't work.  

Rodders53

facade said:

Not really moneysaving, just a question that I can't answer even via google & duckduckgo.

That's odd...

Google quickly found me this A brief history of the heated windscreen | Hagerty UK

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MyRealNameToo said:

A patent covers the "how", you are free to come up with another way of trying to achieve the same goal whilst your competitor holds a patent and you can also licence the solution from them. 

<snip>

Which is what I understood, so Ford couldn't patent "thin vertical heating elements embedded in the glass joined with metal tape" as that had been in use since at least 1967 but they could patent "thin vertical heating elements sandwiched between laminate layers" or "vertical heating wires made of Fordalloy" if they can argue that the solution is different to what has already been done, but everyone becomes free to exactly copy whatever Land Rover did in 1967 20 years after any patent they had, or were licensing was granted.

vacheron

I used to own a 2006 VW Phaeton with a heated windscreen. That used an extremely thin foil embedded in the screen which was fed with 1KW of 48V DC from a boost converter located next to the accessory battery in the boot. 

That solution was invisible, whereas the wires on all the Ford models with heating that I had driven were clearly visible.

Apparenrtly an additional benefit of the VW system was that this foil reflected heat from the sun in summer, so it kept the car cooler too. 

Grumpy_chap

facade said:

I'd happily have paid another couple of hundred for a heated windscreen if the option had been available when I ordered them, but I'm probably in a group of 1 

Make that a group of (at least) two as I would also pay for heated windscreen as an option.

The Ford system is very good - I had several Mondeo's and Focii with the heated windscreen and my wife has it in her Fiesta.  I'd love the same in my Tesla. 
BUT the real proof of the pudding that the Ford system is very good must be the fact that Mercedes, VW Group and others continue to use the Ford heated windscreen on a licence basis rather than developing an alternative.  I read something somewhere many years back that the Ford licence charge was £1 per screen sold to other manufacturers - that could be a very shrewd move as it makes the solution cheap but also £1 each for a whole load of cars makes a lot of money.