Chargeback - where to go from here?

wizzywig27

I recently placed an order for a mobile phone which included a trade in.

Stupidly I sent the handset to be traded in before I received the new one (or was supposed to).

long story short the new one didn’t arrive - raised a chargeback. In between chargeback being raised and refunded, the trade in handset was received and the full amount ‘refunded’. This meant my bank refunded the full amount minus the trade in value (in this instance £446) so I only got £603 back. 

The temporary refund was made permanent just over a week ago and I contacted my bank to ask where the additional £446 was and they said I won’t be getting it. 

A complaint later and evidence of trade in and subsequent refund being processed and my bank won’t budge. 

I have logged with the FOS but really not sure how this will turn out. I paid £1049 - sent my phone to them and only have a refund of £603

Can anyone kindly offer any advice?

born_again

wizzywig27 said:

I recently placed an order for a mobile phone which included a trade in.

Stupidly I sent the handset to be traded in before I received the new one (or was supposed to).

long story short the new one didn’t arrive - raised a chargeback. In between chargeback being raised and refunded, the trade in handset was received and the full amount ‘refunded’. This meant my bank refunded the full amount minus the trade in value (in this instance £446) so I only got £603 back. 

The temporary refund was made permanent just over a week ago and I contacted my bank to ask where the additional £446 was and they said I won’t be getting it. 

A complaint later and evidence of trade in and subsequent refund being processed and my bank won’t budge. 

I have logged with the FOS but really not sure how this will turn out. I paid £1049 - sent my phone to them and only have a refund of £603

Can anyone kindly offer any advice?

How much was debited from your card?
If it was £603, then that is all you are entitled to under chargeback.

So you had your trade in refunded. Then you are back where you should be. So a point waste of time raising a complaint or going to FOS.

You are not going to get a extra £446 from the bank. 

Ayr_Rage

Where has the £446 from the trade in been paid to?

wizzywig27

I paid £1049

Sent my trade in to them (Google) and they refunded me £446 (value of trade in)

based on this Nationwide refunded me £603 - not the full amount of £1049 and they deem the trade in value as a part refund

i have sent evidence of said trade in agreement confirming they refunded me £446 for the trade in 

eskbanker

Chargeback should normally only be initiated after attempts to resolve issues with the merchant have failed, so it's unusual for it to be underway before the old handset was received, although presumably it could suddenly have been 'found' I suppose!

Not sure the bank has any further liability and chargeback only entails one attempt, but it sounds like the merchant now needs to return your handset to square everything off - are they a UK business against whom you could claim in court if they fail to do so?

Edit: cross-posted with this:

wizzywig27 said:

I paid £1049

Sent my trade in to them (Google) and they refunded me £446 (value of trade in)

based on this Nationwide refunded me £603 - not the full amount of £1049 and they deem the trade in value as a part refund

i have sent evidence of said trade in agreement confirming they refunded me £446 for the trade in 

so unsure that anything else is payable if you've been refunded that £446?

wizzywig27

Ayr_Rage said:

You paid £1049

You got back £1049

You aren't due anything else.

No I didn’t, I got back £603, I sent my phone to them which was valued at £446 - I don’t have either phone!

wizzywig27

eskbanker said:

Chargeback should normally only be initiated after attempts to resolve issues with the merchant have failed, so it's unusual for it to be underway before the old handset was received, although presumably it could suddenly have been 'found' I suppose!

Not sure the bank has any further liability and chargeback only entails one attempt, but it sounds like the merchant now needs to return your handset to square everything off - are they a UK business against whom you could claim in court if they fail to do so?

Edit: cross-posted with this:

wizzywig27 said:

I paid £1049

Sent my trade in to them (Google) and they refunded me £446 (value of trade in)

based on this Nationwide refunded me £603 - not the full amount of £1049 and they deem the trade in value as a part refund

i have sent evidence of said trade in agreement confirming they refunded me £446 for the trade in 

so unsure that anything else is payable if you've been refunded that £446?

The ‘refund’ was the value of the handset I sent them. 

This happened back in September so unlikely I’ll be seeing that handset again 

mebu60

You paid out £1049 plus your old phone.

You've had £1049 back, £603 from your bank via chargeback, £446 from the seller as the trade-in value for your old phone.

Isn't the missing piece that you also now require the return of your old phone from the seller? 

wizzywig27

mebu60 said:

You paid out £1049 plus your old phone.

You've had £1049 back, £603 from your bank via chargeback, £446 from the seller as the trade-in value for your old phone.

Isn't the missing piece that you also now require the return of your old phone from the seller? 

Quite possibly yes, my argument is, is that the refund was a separate agreement and transaction. It’s simply because Google processed the refund against the original transaction.

the guy in the Nationwide exec complaints team actually agrees with me

Nebulous2

I can understand why you are upset. You are even in cash terms, but you are down a phone. 

I think you've made several missteps that have contributed to this however. Sending the phone back before receiving the new one. Normally you would spend some time transferring everything across, then do a factory reset and return the phone. 

I've just done that, and had to return the old phone within 14 days of receiving the new one. 

Your timescale isn't clear, but phone companies have introduced additional security methods, including a PIN on delivery, for high value items like phones. It should be quite straight to tell the retailer you haven't received the phone and get a refund or another one sent out. That would have been a better first move than going to cashback. 

Finally, to complicate matters even further, phone companies are offering enhanced payments as trade-ins at the moment to shift phones.  My recent refund included a £220 enhanced payment from the phone manufacturer, so it is very likely your phone wasn't worth the £446 you received for it, and some of that was a promotional offer. Inviting your bank in as a third-party complicates that picture considerably. They aren't in a position to adjudicate on the finer details of your contract, and the value of your phone. 

Saying that's you all-square in cash terms, now find who has your phone and take it up with them seems reasonable to me. 

eskbanker

Did you pay £603 by card and trade in a handset valued at £446, in exchange for a new handset costing £1049?

Or did you pay £1049 by card and also trade in a handset valued at £446, in exchange for a new handset costing £1495?

If the former, you'd seem to be all square (assuming what you refer to as a 'refund' of £446 is actually a refund of £446), but if the latter then not so....