SORTED - THANKS. Plumber left us with no heating and a further £850 cost

lurpdog101

We have always had heating issues in our house, since it was built in 2003. Various plumbers over the years and boiler changed. Most recently, only half the radiators would work. 
This year, had a plumber, recommended by family and online, come to check boiler as it was leaking. He was really good, and said to call Worcester as they do a service plan and one off repair cost. I did. They came, replaced pretty much entire inside of boiler. But problem still persisted with radiators. Called this plumber back, who, being busy, took some time to look and suggested replacement of all radiators, which is what the Worcester guy had unofficially said too (as he wasn't allowed to look at anything outside boiler, but said rads are old). The rads were the ones put in 2003, and the new plumber also said would be better to change them all. He did not do power flushes, so would replace each radiator and then manually flush through etc.

That was April, he eventually had time to come in August to do it (plumbers are notoriously busy). I had bought the radiators myself, in preparation for it, and he quoted £850 to change 11 radiators in the house, which is good price and he said already discounted from what he would usually charge. 

He spent 3 days changing them, but couldn't get them to work. We went from having half the radiators working to non at all. He spent £200 on a new hand pump, which he used on each radiator individually and spent 2 days more trying to fix it. He was talking of taking up floorboards upstairs to find a valve which could be stuck. 2 days he spent, and tried his best. He worked very hard. But he then gave up. He said he had never had an issue in 25 years he could not fix and recommended that a power flush would do it. I told him my wife is disabled and on vulnerable register for heating and water, but he said he couldn't figure it out and left us. He was going on holiday couple days later. He did say he wouldn't charge the extra days as he didn't fix it. 

I had to call around and have another company come who could do a power flush. This cost me £840!! It took them a week, due to scheduling, to book us in. A week without heating or hot water. 

This new plumber set everything up, started his power flush. But something wasn't working. It wasn't flushing through the system. He did some checks. He came down, holding his arm, because a box in airing cupboard had a live wire hanging out of it and he got electric shock. This must have been done accidentally by the original plumber. The airing cupboard is in my son's room. Live wire left loose! 

Anyhow, it took 30 minutes for this new plumber to come to me, and advise me that he saw the issue - the boiler was plumbed in backwards. Flow pipe on boiler plumbed into return pipe on system and vice versa. It took him 30 minutes of being here to see it. The other plumber was here for 5 days in total and didn't. (I know sometimes can't see the wood for the trees). 

Anyhow, this plumber replumbed the pipes after his boss said to just do it as a 10 minute job and no extra charge as already paying out £840. Very grateful. 

Didn't hear anything from the original plumber until over 2 months later when he sent my invoice apologising for it taking so long. I informed him what had happened, (he already knew we had no heating after he left, as told him that and he said power flush...have the messages). His reaction to the issue was

"Really? Wow, that's why it was so baffling to me then, I would have never imagined that, because the flow pipe in the cupboard was getting hot as normal. Thats blown my mind Well at least its working for you mate"

My query is this - can I ask the original plumber who fitted the radiator for a reduction in his charges, as he left us with no heating, knowing my wife disabled, and told me to get a power flush again knowing it would cost that much? 5 days and he didn't see the pipes from the boiler, when it took so little time for the other one to see it. (Again, it's something that could easily be missed, if focussing on the issue being somewhere else). 

As it stands, all radiators are working perfect for the first time ever, thermometer only on 17 and house is toasty warm after 10-15 minutes whereas before it took 2 hours at 23+ degrees to get it anywhere near a warm feeling and even then some rooms were stone cold. 

Just would like to know my rights, or some advice on whether I can ask for discount etc, as he advised me to spend another £840 to fix the issue he left. His total cost was £963, which was the £850 plus £113 for the valves for the radiators, as he bought those. 

Thanks in advance for any help.

rob7475

So the original plumber quoted £850 to change 11 radiators. Did he complete the work? If so, you pay him the agreed amount. The new radiators will be contributing to your system heating up quicker so you are getting a benefit from the work he did.

As for the flow and return being piped up backwards - I'm not sure why this would stop the heating working. In a two pipe system with modern TRV's, it shouldn't matter which way the flow and return are piped as the valves will allow water to flow in both directions. I may be wrong though as I'm only a diyer with limited knowledge.

WIAWSNB

Is it a combi boiler, or do you have a hot cylinder?

Eldi_Dos

I would think that your dispute would be with whoever installed the boiler or possibly the company that did the major repair at the begining of the year.

The plumber who you tasked to fit radiators for you seems to have carried out his work without anything wrong with the new radiators, so I think you should pay him and keep on good terms incase you want to use him in the future.

Section62

lurpdog101 said:

...
Anyhow, this plumber replumbed the pipes after his boss said to just do it as a 10 minute job and no extra charge as already paying out £840. Very grateful. 
...

Did you see him changing the pipework over, or do you have before/after pictures to verify what has been done?  10 minutes is pretty speedy work, unless he'd already cut into this pipework to do the powerflush....

I'm with rob7475 in terms of whether this really is the cause of the issue.  There are scenarios where mixing the flow and return pipe could be a serious problem, but I'm struggling to think of a scenario where this would cause half the radiators to work and half not.

lurpdog101

thanks for the replies. I had already decided to pay, as he did the work asked. So only fair. I just wondered. He did work hard to find out why. 

As for them being wrong - yes the pipes he changed were the ones directly above the boiler, it might have been bit longer than 10 mins, but didn't take long. he just had cut couple inches of each pipe and then repipe them. It did stop them heating properly, as going up the return instead of the flow, it missed the thermometer. This then led to constant kettling, pipes shaking and rattling etc in airing cupboard where cylinder is (its open vent). We had got used to the kettling, as had that since moved in. So yeah the issue is with the ones who did it originally. Barrett's. We did try to complain way back then but they never did anything. We had British Gas come to put new boiler in, in 2013 so they just plumbed it in as the original had been, Since the pipes were changed over, there has been no kettling at all, either with hot water or heating (occurred regularly as in every time boiler went on beforehand). 

Thanks - you have validated my thoughts and I will pay him. He is a really good guy, and saved us over £3000 on a new boiler by advising us to go to Worcester about the leak. My mind is eased.

WIAWSNB

Good ultimate result, Lurpdawg.

It's a toughie - the situation was very unusual, and no plumber could have anticipated the cause being one that existed from installation some 22 years ago! Whether they should have carried out some more basics tests will remain open to question. But, hey.

You were very lucky to have found a guy who looked at the situation without preconceptions. He's a keeper *

Yes, it has cost you more than anticipated, but - after 22-odd years - you do have brand new rads, so hopefully a system now working at its peak.

And the icing on the cake is your very reasonable and understanding response.

Happy New Heating.

* I bet he's currently down t'pub regaling his plumbing colleagues with, "You will NOT believe what I came across today!"