Patcham High School / Community Centre - One Parking Solution

anon18112025

Hello,

having posted in this discussion, it was suggested I started a new thread, so here goes. My initial post was as follows:

hello, don't know if this is the best possible place to raise this or whether to start it's own thread, my car was ticketed in the same location and same circumstances.

I did not pay the charge (issued 6th Septmebr), complained to the council (no response) and heard nothing until today, the 18th Nov, receiving a letter dated the 10th November (65 days after the alleged offence) from a debt collection company.

As I understand it, this should be considered my first Notice to Keeper, but my main question right now is whether or not that is an acceptable timescale for this notice? 65 days seems a very long time with all guidance appearing to suggest that NTK letters should arrive sooner (28 days?) but I don't think I'm understanding the guidance very well. 

Any guidance on that would be very much appreciated.

So to be clear, on the 6th September a Parking Charge notice attached to windscreen (attached below) - to which I took no action beyond appealing to the land owner (Brighton and Hove council) via an online form (no response). I have since received nothing - no follow up from One Parking Solutions, no letter indicated as a NTK - until today, the 18th of November, where I have received a letter from a debt collection agency (attached below), dated the 10th November. I understand this is to be taken as my first NTK.

No evidence of who was driving has been presented, just several photos of the car and a permit holders only sign which even upon my return to the car park I can't quite work out where it is (though I'm hoping this is irrelevant).

So I would appreciate some guidance on the next steps - is the notice to keeper still technically valid having been sent so late on (I read about a 56 day timescale and the letter is dated 64 days after the alleged infringement) and if it is, is my next step to send the appeal letter as follows:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle

Would that be sufficient detail, having removed mention of PDT machines or overstays which I don't believe are relevant.

Many thanks and appreciate any and all advice given.

Le_Kirk

As you appear to have a debt collection letter from ZZPS, you are too late to appeal.  Await letter before claim.  Is the address on your V5C up-to-date?

anon18112025

V5C address is up to date and has been for sometime (i.e. well before this).

I was following the advice below about waiting for the NTK to arrive before challenging - have I missed the boat on this then? Slightly confused as to when I should have taken action as there has been no NTK previously?

IPC members are different:

In the case of CURRENT IPC AOS MEMBERS ONLY, we now advise to WAIT for a Notice to Keeper to arrive and then challenge once as the KEEPER, not driver, using the template appeal, as shown below.

Q -''Why wait for the 'NTK' to arrive a month later, after finding an IPC member windscreen PCN?''

A: Because there has been shown to be no appeal worth trying really, you will get a rejection anyway, so you may as well leave it and see if they issue a NTK and let them apply to the DVLA (unless yours is a company or lease car of course, in which case you MUST appeal at windscreen PCN stage as stated at the end of this thread).

Coupon-mad

Lack of NTK makes no sense unless your V5C has a typo or if your post is unreliable? Either that or OPS never sent it...

I'd send them a complaint (not appeal) saying no NTK was ever received and you will report them to the IPC if they fail to issue it/send a copy of what they say was posted, along with proof of posting.

anon18112025

Coupon-mad said:

Lack of NTK makes no sense unless your V5C has a typo or if your post is unreliable? Either that or OPS never sent it...

I'd send them a complaint (not appeal) saying no NTK was ever received and you will report them to the IPC if they fail to issue it/send a copy of what they say was posted, along with proof of posting.

Thanks for explaining. 

I've no reason to doubt the post and have been looking out for a letter about this matter, so it's not been missed. 

The V5C is accurate - presumably the debt collectors will have had my details passed to them by OPS in the first place, though I'll warrant they have other ways of obtaining details if not. 

I will contact them with a complaint as suggested. Many thanks. 

anon18112025

Hello,

I finally received a response to my complaint with the following:

Good afternoon

Thank you for your complaint.

A notice to driver was affixed to the windscreen as shown in the attached photo.

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 paragraph 8 point (6) states “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.”

Attached is sufficient evidence to support that One Parking Solution Ltd (OPS) has followed the British Parking Association (BPA) and International Parking Community (IPC) single code of practice correctly and within the correct time frame. It is an entry taken from our postage service (Postworks) that the notice to keeper (attached) was sent on the correct date and time.

The onus to prove the contrary now lies with the motorist.

You have now reached the end of our internal complaints process. Should you wish to escalate the matter please do so at www.theipc.info using the unique complaint reference in the subject title.

Regards

Samson

Complaints Manager

As suggested, this simply wasn't received and I have absolutely no idea how anyone could be expected to demonstrate that something wasn't received? 

The evidence they alluded to is this screenshot of a spreadsheet and a copy of the letter:

Screenshot:

Letter:

Additionally, I have received another letter from ZZPS and the following letter from GCTT Certified Enforcement Agents which presumably alludes to a court threat, though that isn't explicit.

If anyone can provide some advice on what my next step would be I would be very appreciative. I'm a bit thrown by not having had the NTK and so it's unclear to me how I can respond to this appropriately. Many thanks and you're all very wonderful for helping people with these things.

anon18112025

I'm also slightly confused by the timeline.

I read (through google so not entirely sure it's reliable) that a NTK must, where a ticket was placed on a windscreen, have been sent within 14 working days? 

Is that the case? I suspect I'm missing something here.

anon18112025

anon18112025 said:

I'm also slightly confused by the timeline.

I read (through google so not entirely sure it's reliable) that a NTK must, where a ticket was placed on a windscreen, have been sent within 14 working days? 

Is that the case? I suspect I'm missing something here.

Never mind, I think the 56 day period is the correct timing here.

Coupon-mad

anon18112025 said:

I'm also slightly confused by the timeline.

I read (through google so not entirely sure it's reliable) that a NTK must, where a ticket was placed on a windscreen, have been sent within 14 working days? 

Is that the case?

No. That's para 9.

Why are you Googling it when the NEWBIES thread tells you about para 8 and 9 of POFA?

And that's a non-POFA NTK anyway, because Patcham CC is BHCC land. Non POFA by definition and law. They are not claiming keeper liability under POFA. Never were.

So the deadlines don't apply.

You will never pay it. Show us this please:

"an entry taken from our postage service (Postworks)"

anon18112025

This is the "an entry taken from our postage service (Postworks)"  - it's very difficult to attach as it is simply an extract from a excel spreadsheet. 

It should be more legible if you right click and open in new tab.



The "reference" is a .pdf file name, so not a Royal Mail reference. I believe the the URN is, I believe an internal code (it's 13 digits made up letters date of composure).

I don't really see how this could be considered any kind of verifiable proof of postage, as it apparently nothing more than internal record keeping. 

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

Lack of NTK makes no sense unless your V5C has a typo or if your post is unreliable? Either that or OPS never sent it...

I'd send them a complaint (not appeal) saying no NTK was ever received and you will report them to the IPC if they fail to issue it/send a copy of what they say was posted, along with proof of posting.

anon18112025 said:

Hello,

I finally received a response to my complaint with the following:

Good afternoon

Thank you for your complaint.

A notice to driver was affixed to the windscreen as shown in the attached photo.

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 paragraph 8 point (6) states “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.”

Attached is sufficient evidence to support that One Parking Solution Ltd (OPS) has followed the British Parking Association (BPA) and International Parking Community (IPC) single code of practice correctly and within the correct time frame. It is an entry taken from our postage service (Postworks) that the notice to keeper (attached) was sent on the correct date and time.

The onus to prove the contrary now lies with the motorist.

You have now reached the end of our internal complaints process. Should you wish to escalate the matter please do so at www.theipc.info using the unique complaint reference in the subject title.

Regards

Samson

Complaints Manager

As suggested, this simply wasn't received and I have absolutely no idea how anyone could be expected to demonstrate that something wasn't received? 

This is the "an entry taken from our postage service (Postworks)"  - it's very difficult to attach as it is simply an extract from a excel spreadsheet. 

It should be more legible if you right click and open in new tab.



The "reference" is a .pdf file name, so not a Royal Mail reference. I believe the the URN is, I believe an internal code (it's 13 digits made up letters date of composure).

I don't really see how this could be considered any kind of verifiable proof of postage, as it apparently nothing more than internal record keeping. 

I bet Samson is about twelve, like young 'arry who dropped his aitches and used to muck up court cases for OPS. Anyway I digress:

I zoomed in on the detail. Interesting.

Hybrid (via a mail consolidator called Postworks) second class post was used for a NTK that has time-bound deadlines for the recipient! If it arrives...and second class post is not deemed delivered within 2 working days.

And it costs OPS just 80p. Wow. What a lazy, anti-consumer, penny-pinching bunch of ex-clampers.