Mains gas and HV cables running under our property

Finneganae

We recently discovered we have mains gas and 2 HV cables running over our garden, we believe 2 metres from our house.  We bought the house 11 years ago but found nothing in our deeds, or any surveys we did relating to gas or electric being there, just a mains water pipe.  

Unfortunately for us, we have had planning permission agreed (on two separate occasions) to build over that area.  Electric have agreed to redirect their cables but gas are saying no and even if it is technically possible we would have to pay...into the 10s of thousands. .we have a scheme agreed for a build over for water.  

My question is, can these companies get away with not providing any legal documentation or evidence for them being there? in the first place  No deed of easement was set up when they were first put in on building the house in 1983, there are no inspection chambers (we only have water ones), no one has ever been out to maintain them.  This pipe is over 40 years old and was described to us by someone at the gas company as 'old and fragile' although this is not written down.  

The gas company are saying they can use their prescriptive rights to keep the pipe there and that we should have checked it was there.  However, there is nothing in our deeds, no mention in our full structural survey when we bought the house, nothing from Local Authority after going through planning permission, no one has been out to inspect and no inspection chambers.  I thought a utility company had to agree a deed of easement with the landowner when they install. Is this not true?

Section62

Finneganae said:

We recently discovered we have mains gas and 2 HV cables running over our garden, we believe 2 metres from our house.  We bought the house 11 years ago but found nothing in our deeds, or any surveys we did relating to gas or electric being there, just a mains water pipe.  

Unfortunately for us, we have had planning permission agreed (on two separate occasions) to build over that area.  Electric have agreed to redirect their cables but gas are saying no and even if it is technically possible we would have to pay...into the 10s of thousands. .we have a scheme agreed for a build over for water.  

My question is, can these companies get away with not providing any legal documentation or evidence for them being there? in the first place  No deed of easement was set up when they were first put in on building the house in 1983, there are no inspection chambers (we only have water ones), no one has ever been out to maintain them.  This pipe is over 40 years old and was described to us by someone at the gas company as 'old and fragile' although this is not written down.  

The gas company are saying they can use their prescriptive rights to keep the pipe there and that we should have checked it was there.  However, there is nothing in our deeds, no mention in our full structural survey when we bought the house, nothing from Local Authority after going through planning permission, no one has been out to inspect and no inspection chambers.  I thought a utility company had to agree a deed of easement with the landowner when they install. Is this not true?

If they were there before your house - or put there when the estate was developed - then either no easement with the owner of your property was required, or the gas company made an agreement with the developer.

Gas pipes (and electricity cables) don't have inspection chambers.  There may be valve chambers, but these are few and far between and probably somewhere where the estate road starts.  Your surveyor wouldn't know about the pipes/cables unless you told them they were there, and only the most important (/dangerous) gas mains are known to the planning authority.  They would only be a planning consideration if they were of strategic importance and the development risked causing problems.

The utilities have extensive powers to install and maintain their plant, and protect it from damage.  You'd need to consult a solicitor to find out the exact details of what the gas company can and can't do in your case, but I doubt the lack of paperwork means the gas company would have to remove or divert their pipe.

It is fairly common for someone wanting to do work which requires alterations to utility plant to have to pay for it - and five or six-figure sums are what it often costs.  Diverting a gas main is an expensive job and needs a lot of planning.  If there are HV electric cables nearby then it makes things more complicated on top.

Is there another way of extending the property which wouldn't affect the gas pipes?

theartfullodger

Upwards possible?

Finneganae

Thank you for your comments.  Oddly the electricity company have agreeed to divert their cables for free and have said the gas could use their trench.  

We just cannot believe there is no formal record of it when it was put in. Also the pipe services the entire estate (over 100 houses) so not insignificant.  

Do you think there would be a chance of fair compensation for impacting the future value of the house bearing in mind we now have to declare it and it will affect the future value of our house and how we use it?  

Robin9

Finneganae said:

................................  However, there is nothing in our deeds, no mention in our full structural survey when we bought the house, nothing from Local Authority after going through planning permission, no one has been out to inspect and no inspection chambers.....................

The Deeds are the only place there would be a record ; the LA  are not involved  in the original work and the planners are not interested or in a position to comment;   neither would your Surveyor.

lincroft1710

Finneganae said:

Do you think there would be a chance of fair compensation for impacting the future value of the house bearing in mind we now have to declare it and it will affect the future value of our house and how we use it?  

By how much do you believe your home has been devalued and what evidence do you have for this?


The counter argument would be that the house is worth what it is as it stands and there are no inherent rights or expectations that a property can be altered by extension or otherwise, unless there is clearly a large expanse of garden land to the side which one would expect to be used for an extension.. 


Your legal costs in such an action even if you won would probably exceed any compensation. If you lost...........

user1977

Compensation from whom? Wasn't the house built after the utilities were laid? 

Finneganae

The area to the side of our house is large, large enough to build another house if we wanted to so the area is, size-wise, an obvious site to extend if there were no restrictions and was part of the reason we bought the property in the first place.  

The utilities were put in when the house was built. Therefore compensation from the utility companies for laying them without a wayleave in place with the landowner which would have come up in our surveys when buying the house.  Or, is it just a case that our solicitor has been negligent in not checking this.  Strikes me as odd that there was never any formal agreement in place. Aren't utility companies bound by this these days?   

lincroft1710

Are you the first owner of the house, because if not, this would complicate matters regarding any right to compensation

Finneganae

Thank you for getting back to me.  No, we are second not first owners.  Can't help thinking this may lie with our solicitor for not checking.  We knew about water when we bought it and assumed that it was just that...which was obviously naive...  

lincroft1710

So you have a choice of gas pipeline owner, builder of house, your vendor and the solicitor who acted for your purchase as possible entities you could potentially sue. But there were only two you had a contract with, your vendor and your solicitor and it is extremely doubtful neither knew of the problem or in the normal course of events would be expected to know as there was nothing mentioned in the deeds.


I would suggest, hard as it may seem, just to forget it.