Pre-exchange: management company ‘waiting for new insurance certificate from broker’

northerner1974

Hi all,

I’ve sold my leasehold flat a few months ago, and we’re ready exchange. However the insurance certificate for the building expired mid October, so an updated certificate has been requested. However, the management company have been saying for 2 weeks now ‘we are waiting for a certificate from the broker’. I keep chasing them, and am told they have chased them each time. 

Tearing my hair out a little bit. Not only because it seems utterly ridiculous that a certificate would take this long to obtain, but also that something so simple is what’s holding it up. Also makes me wonder if something isn’t right as i can’t believe it would take this long (remember, the previous insurance expired a month ago now).

I have tried almost everything I can think of:

- Have contacted the broker myself - told I have to go through management co.
- Tried to contact the landlord direct, but no contact details other than a jersey address.
- I’ve reminded the management company of their obligations under the landlord and tenant act 1984 that they have to provide insurance documents in a reasonable timeframe.

Made more difficult by the fact there’s no way of speaking to anyone at the management company by phone - only email.

Anyone have any ideas? I’ve checked whether just an email confirmation of insurance is ok but apparently the certificate is needed. I know I can also escalate it to a tribunal but this could take weeks. 

gm0

You read the situation correctly.

Yet for the admin chain of man co and their insurance broker/insurer.  

"Your buyer's solicitor being a nitpicker does not constitute an urgent item/emergency on our part"


>Anyone have any ideas? I’ve checked whether just an email confirmation of insurance is ok but apparently the >certificate is needed. I know I can also escalate it to a tribunal but this could take weeks. 

Somebody is saying that a current certificate (validity 12 months) on a 999 year lease. Is essential.  Meh

Conveyancer solicitors are a law unto themselves.  bottom covering to the nth degree preferred. Any risk of a gap coming back to haunt them - not preferred.  Even over trivia.  As here.  Delay doesn't matter to them. Only to you and the buyer.

Buyer can exchange.  Having received all advise on responses and outstanding risks/items.  
Or wait for this as with any other issue or clarification.

There is no absolute standard of proof here.

An email saying insurance was renewed on date x.  And kicking the ball to buyer solicitor. And making sure the buyer knows that confirmation has been received.  May move things along.  Or it may not.  Worth a try.

Tribunal nonsense. Though threat of it (and creating more work) may sponsor some renewed sense of urgency.  Or the relevant party at a broker may have returned from vacation and work their stack.

EssexHebridean

The buyer’s solicitor is not being a nitpicker. They may well be acting for a mortgage lender as well, in which case the lender will require confirmation of the insurance being in place before they release funds. Exchange cannot happen before everything is in place in order to allow funds to be released, and so this is a reasonable, althiigh annoying delay. 

@gm0 almost every aspect of your post is nonsense, with factual inaccuracy piled on top of fabrication. This is not helping the OP in  the slightest, and simply risks leading them up a garden path where they could even lose the buyer. 

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

I would suggest casting around among your neighbours to see if anyone has a phone number for them too - is there not even an emergency contact number for them anywhere?  

eddddy

EssexHebridean said:

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

FWIW, if a leaseholder asks in writing to inspect or have a copy of the insurance policy - the law says the freeholder must provide it within 21 days.

Failing to do so (without reasonable excuse) is a criminal offence.

The relevant legislation is The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, Schedule 2
See: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/schedule/crossheading/request-to-inspect-insurance-policy-etc

I don't know if simply saying "the insurance broker hasn't provided it yet" counts as a "reasonable excuse", or whether a court would expect the freeholder to chase the insurance broker for a copy of the policy, in order to provide it within the 21 day limit.

But maybe just threatening the freeholder with prosecution under the Landlord and Tenant Act might help to move things forward.



For more info (and a template "threatening letter"), scroll down to section 8 here: https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/service-charges-other-issues/#25

northerner1974

Thank you all. I decided to go with one last ‘plead’ to the management company on Friday morning before I stepped up the legal pressure with regards to the 21 days, and I managed to get it just before 5pm, which is a relief! 

And yeah I fully understood the legal need from the solicitor’s side (and my own solicitor even confirmed it for me). I was just perplexed it could take so long to get a simple document. Still not entirely sure why it took so long. 

saajan_12

gm0 said:

"Your buyer's solicitor being a nitpicker does not constitute an urgent item/emergency on our part"

..
Somebody is saying that a current certificate (validity 12 months) on a 999 year lease. Is essential.  Meh

Conveyancer solicitors are a law unto themselves.  bottom covering to the nth degree preferred. Any risk of a gap coming back to haunt them - not preferred.  Even over trivia.  As here.  Delay doesn't matter to them. Only to you and the buyer.
.

What does the length of the lease have to do with insurance? The lender is looking for proof of insurance, we don't know that an email proof or whatever has been provided. If the insurance is not in place and the place floods / collapses / whatever, then the lender will have lent money for a building that doesn't exist. 

In houses its common to just make it a clause that the buyer insures the property, which is a relatively smaller cost. For a flat, the person arranging the insurance isn't as affected by the sale, so if its not in place now, who's to say it'll be there upon exchange / completion? No nitpicking here. 

ExEstateAgent

eddddy said:

EssexHebridean said:

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

FWIW, if a leaseholder asks in writing to inspect or have a copy of the insurance policy - the law says the freeholder must provide it within 21 days.

Failing to do so (without reasonable excuse) is a criminal offence.

I know the situation for the OP is now resolved but just on this point, whilst it may technically be a criminal offence a lowly leaseholder has almost zero chance of actually bringing a freeholder to court for it. The police won't turn up and arrest him/her and private criminal proceedings are extremely costly! 

eddddy

ExEstateAgent said:

eddddy said:

EssexHebridean said:

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

FWIW, if a leaseholder asks in writing to inspect or have a copy of the insurance policy - the law says the freeholder must provide it within 21 days.

Failing to do so (without reasonable excuse) is a criminal offence.

I know the situation for the OP is now resolved but just on this point, whilst it may technically be a criminal offence a lowly leaseholder has almost zero chance of actually bringing a freeholder to court for it. The police won't turn up and arrest him/her and private criminal proceedings are extremely costly! 

The police wouldn't be involved.

The leaseholder would report the freeholder to the Local Housing Authority (i.e. the council), and they could prosecute the freeholder.

See: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/34

Councils can also prosecute for a range of other things such as: landlords breaking gas safety regulations, benefit fraud, fly-tipping, health and safety breaches, breaches of planning notices, irregular school attendance, etc. 

ExEstateAgent

eddddy said:

ExEstateAgent said:

eddddy said:

EssexHebridean said:

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

FWIW, if a leaseholder asks in writing to inspect or have a copy of the insurance policy - the law says the freeholder must provide it within 21 days.

Failing to do so (without reasonable excuse) is a criminal offence.

I know the situation for the OP is now resolved but just on this point, whilst it may technically be a criminal offence a lowly leaseholder has almost zero chance of actually bringing a freeholder to court for it. The police won't turn up and arrest him/her and private criminal proceedings are extremely costly! 

The police wouldn't be involved.

The leaseholder would report the freeholder to the Local Housing Authority (i.e. the council), and they could prosecute the freeholder.

I know someone who tried this - council weren't interested. 

Like most of the leaseholder rights, enforcing them is pretty hopeless. 

eddddy

ExEstateAgent said:

eddddy said:

ExEstateAgent said:

eddddy said:

EssexHebridean said:

OP - sadly this is not unusual in the world of management companies or indeed freeholders. Does your lease stipulate anything other than “a reasonable timescale” for how soon documents should be produced? If not, do you have any precedent that management Co might have set themselves - for example if asking you to produce any documentation in the past?  If, for example they have given you a 14 day window previously you could use this to inform them that in your view they have now exceeded that reasonable timescale. 

FWIW, if a leaseholder asks in writing to inspect or have a copy of the insurance policy - the law says the freeholder must provide it within 21 days.

Failing to do so (without reasonable excuse) is a criminal offence.

I know the situation for the OP is now resolved but just on this point, whilst it may technically be a criminal offence a lowly leaseholder has almost zero chance of actually bringing a freeholder to court for it. The police won't turn up and arrest him/her and private criminal proceedings are extremely costly! 

The police wouldn't be involved.

The leaseholder would report the freeholder to the Local Housing Authority (i.e. the council), and they could prosecute the freeholder.

I know someone who tried this - council weren't interested. 

Like most of the leaseholder rights, enforcing them is pretty hopeless. 

There's only one prosecution that shows up in google searches...
https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/news/2023/landlord-prosecuted-second-time-failing-tenants

But in reality, I imagine that if a Freeholder gets a letter from the council saying "Provide a copy of your buildings insurance policy to your leaseholder, or we'll prosecute you" - 99.9% of freeholders would then provide a copy.

And if the copy is then provided, I suspect councils wouldn't proceed with a prosecution.



Edit to add...
Out of interest, when your contact made a complaint to the council about their freeholder, what did the council say in their official response?

In my experience, when councils get housing related complaints, they almost automatically send very aggressive letters to landlords etc, threatening them with enforcement, prosecution etc. (without actually doing any checking that the complainant's story is accurate).