First time buyers deciding how to renegotiate after survey

alien_pebble

Hi, 

We are a young couple who are in the process of buying a first home. We are at the stage where we have a mortgage offer and our survey is complete. 

We initially had trouble with getting a mortgage with the property as the first lender wouldn’t lend due to the kitchen extension having single skin walls. 

The next lender we went with has given us an offer that we are relieved about. 

However, our survey has come back saying that the kitchen extension structure needs total demolition and rebuild to proper building regulations. The survey mentions this recommendation throughout the survey and notes that it lacks adequate insulation due to the wooden frame structure and noted decay on this plus other notes on the flat roof that could
go at any time. The surveyor recommended we seek immediate advice from builders to get costs and suggest that renewing the structure would not be viable. 

There are also mentions throughout the survey of asbestos around the house in places where they have recommended work needing to be done. 

There are other things that were in the survey but we don’t feel that are as substantial as those two issues. 

My question is now, what would a reasonable adjustment to the price of the property be? 

The house has been on the market for 6 months and had two other buyers fall through so the price has reduced twice from £345k to £295k which we originally offered pending survey due to it obviously needing a full rewire. It’s in a nice area and has a nice outlook. The house is 1960s and the interiors haven’t been updated and will need modernising which is great with us. 

We need to confirm with a builder a cost but we estimate a minimum of £30k to demolish and rebuild the kitchen. 

What would a good reduction be that both mitigates some of the cost for us and isn’t insulting to the buyer? 

Thanks for any advice!! 

silvercar

don’t worry about insulting the seller, they clearly know there are issues.

First question would be whether you have money set aside to do the work. The lender will only lend based on current market value.
You need proper costings to do the work.

Albermarle

Normally when FTB's come to the forum with worries about surveys, a lot of the issues are not that bad really. Surveyors tend to highlight worst case scenarios, to cover themselves.

However in your case it seems they are serious about the kitchen issue. It is unusual to have a single skin brick wall.

How big is the kitchen ( external size) ? Depending on where you are in the country, building costs are around £3K per M2- then plus fitting out another £10K ? Plus will be a demolition cost. 

As the current kitchen appears serviceable, and you will have a much nicer kitchen after a rebuild, then you can not really pass the whole cost on. Maybe half ???

alien_pebble

Albermarle said:

Normally when FTB's come to the forum with worries about surveys, a lot of the issues are not that bad really. Surveyors tend to highlight worst case scenarios, to cover themselves.

However in your case it seems they are serious about the kitchen issue. It is unusual to have a single skin brick wall.

How big is the kitchen ( external size) ? Depending on where you are in the country, building costs are around £3K per M2- then plus fitting out another £10K ? Plus will be a demolition cost. 

As the current kitchen appears serviceable, and you will have a much nicer kitchen after a rebuild, then you can not really pass the whole cost on. Maybe half ???

Thanks so much for your reply! 

Yeah 100% it seems like such a lot when you first read through! 

The extension is made from a timber structure which is apparently rotting in places. The structure is approx 2.4m x 4.5m so it’s not massive but of course that’s still a substantial amount of money and not something that is a normal amount of maintenance you would expect with owning a house. 

I appreciate the suggestion for the seller to cover half way, I think for us it’s figuring out where that line is of the cost to us and being reasonable with the seller as like you say we are the ones that will benefit from the upgrade.

m0bov

Do you really want to inherit all that work? I'd be knocking £50k off take it or leave it.

Herzlos

Is the mortgage lender still willing to lend given the state of the kitchen?

How viable is it to live without the kitchen structure for a few months whilst the work is done? Remember that means no kitchen and potentially a lot of open house whilst it's ongoing. 

Personally either be making a really low offer if I could live with the work, or finding somewhere I can live in straight away. You need to budget for the work costing you at least £50k and taking 2 months, and hopefully be pleasantly surprised. 

Smalltownhypocrite

A survey will not tell you their is Asbestos, that requires specific testing... ALL surveys on pre-2000 build houses will say they have a 'risk of Asbestos'. Its standard boiler plate and means nothing, you can order tests to test but asbestos risk is just part of old houses and usually completely fine. Its not a reason to negotiate price, if you are worried about a specific thing you can ask the seller to allow testing.

The problem with renegotiating over the kitchen is you KNEW of these issues when offering. You acknowledged you knew earlier in the process that it was single skinned non standard wood construction as your lending was denied and you can see with your eyes that it is flat roofed and to be honest if its so badly rotted it needs complete demolishing that would likely been obvious even to a novice too.

Buying a house with a kitchen in what essentially sounds like a makeshift rotten wooden lean to type structure is mad in the first place. Renegotiating is really for things that where not previous obvious, sounds like this should have been really been taken into account at the offer stage as non of it is really news to you. 

ReadySteadyPop

m0bov said:

Do you really want to inherit all that work? I'd be knocking £50k off take it or leave it.

Yes, 50k here as well, but do they really want all that work? Looking elsewhere would be my advice, the seller has obviously been trying it on with the price.

ReadySteadyPop

Smalltownhypocrite said:

A survey will not tell you their is Asbestos, that requires specific testing... ALL surveys on pre-2000 build houses will say they have a 'risk of Asbestos'. Its standard boiler plate and means nothing, you can order tests to test but asbestos risk is just part of old houses and usually completely fine. Its not a reason to negotiate price, if you are worried about a specific thing you can ask the seller to allow testing.

The problem with renegotiating over the kitchen is you KNEW of these issues when offering. You acknowledged you knew earlier in the process that it was single skinned non standard wood construction as your lending was denied and you can see with your eyes that it is flat roofed and to be honest if its so badly rotted it needs complete demolishing that would likely been obvious even to a novice too.

Buying a house with a kitchen in what essentially sounds like a makeshift rotten wooden lean to type structure is mad in the first place. Renegotiating is really for things that where not previous obvious, sounds like this should have been really been taken into account at the offer stage as non of it is really news to you. 

The buyer can change their mind anytime they like, unfortunately sellers just have to accept this as part of the process. The initial asking price shows that the seller does not have a very strong moral compass so any price reductions they have to suck up are just part of the same game.

Herzlos

It's also worth checking what the value of the house is rather than the asking prices. Was it priced to account for the complete rebuild of the extension or was it priced assuming it was in good condition?

ReadySteadyPop

Herzlos said:

It's also worth checking what the value of the house is rather than the asking prices. Was it priced to account for the complete rebuild of the extension or was it priced assuming it was in good condition?

"the price has reduced twice from £345k to £295k "

Sounds like they just plucked a figure out of the air and hoped someone would bite.