OddsMonkey - Change in online service provision and asking for a refund

Maverick192

Hi all,

I'll preface this by saying I'm not really sure what my rights are as a consumer here, and I'm interested to know if anyone could give an opinion on whether refunds are appropriate or not under these circumstances.

My gut feeling is probably that I can't ask for a refund (and expect to get one) but I am angry about what's happened and as feedback is being largely ignored by the company, I feel like a refund request is the only way I can register my disgust in a way that will affect them.

Ok, so the outline of the story:

• I am a member of OddsMonkey, the matched betting subscription service that helps people make a bit of cash from bookies welcome offers and free bets.
• I signed up a year ago to the value betting tier and my sub recently renewed.  I am paying the best part of £500 per year, as a 12 month subscription, so I have 11 months left on my 12 month sub.  Some people will be paying more, or will have renewals coming up.
• For the last 13 months, I've been happy with the tools and services provided.  No issues whatsoever, and I was happy to renew for another year.
• Last month, without warning (well, one days notice) OddsMonkey migrated me over to a new inferior set of tools, riddled with bugs and with a lot of features removed.  I won't list them all as it's probably white noise, but the crux of it is I thought I was paying for a known set of tools, and now they have been taken away, and I have been given a new set of worse tools, that I may well have not chosen to pay for, given the poor quality.
• OddsMonkey have promised changes and fixes, this has been about 3 weeks now and some changes have been applied, but I can see in my weekly profits that I am doing worse because of the worse tools.  I'm willing to wait a bit, if the tools are certain to be fixed, but the constant failed promises are making me think it will still be an inferior product anyway in 12 months time.
• OddsMonkey are registered in Malta, if that makes a difference.

I've been trying to read up on the consumer rights act, particularly the digital services part, but the thing I'm struggling with is that my complaint feels more along the lines of this being a "bait and switch" issue, i.e. I paid for one thing, but am receiving something entirely different, that I did not trial and that I would not have accepted as of adequate quality to pay for, had it had been the offering.

Where do the forumites and resident experts think I might stand on either of these two financial complaints:

1. Asking for compensation for the loss of income, due to the removed features from the tooling?
2. Asking for a pro-rata refund of my subscription (and of course a cancellation of my services)?

Is there anything else I should do?  I will of course raise a complaint but should I stop using my sub, even though I can still make some money from it (I don't want to give up all the income, even it its reduced now)?  I would sign up for a rival service, but only if I think I will get a refund for my paid yearly fee, as its not cheap!

Thanks a lot for anyone reading who got to the end and especially so for anyone who might chime in with some thoughts.  I'm a bit confused about what to do at this point.

la531983

DO you know if there are grumblings by other people elsewhere (on other forums and the like?)

Maverick192

la531983 said:

DO you know if there are grumblings by other people elsewhere (on other forums and the like?)

 Yeah loads of it!  Everyone is unhappy!

user1977

As with many betting sites, they appear to be based in Gibraltar so I expect your rights will be whatever Gibraltan law provides for rather than UK consumer rights.

Alderbank

Maverick192 said:

I've been trying to read up on the consumer rights act...

Asking for compensation for the loss of income...

Good luck with that!

The consumer rights act doesn't really help you much with purposes to do with your trade, business, craft or profession.

born_again

Maverick192 said:

Hi all,

I'll preface this by saying I'm not really sure what my rights are as a consumer here, and I'm interested to know if anyone could give an opinion on whether refunds are appropriate or not under these circumstances.

My gut feeling is probably that I can't ask for a refund (and expect to get one) but I am angry about what's happened and as feedback is being largely ignored by the company, I feel like a refund request is the only way I can register my disgust in a way that will affect them.

Ok, so the outline of the story:

• I am a member of OddsMonkey, the matched betting subscription service that helps people make a bit of cash from bookies welcome offers and free bets.
• I signed up a year ago to the value betting tier and my sub recently renewed.  I am paying the best part of £500 per year, as a 12 month subscription, so I have 11 months left on my 12 month sub.  Some people will be paying more, or will have renewals coming up.
• For the last 13 months, I've been happy with the tools and services provided.  No issues whatsoever, and I was happy to renew for another year.
• Last month, without warning (well, one days notice) OddsMonkey migrated me over to a new inferior set of tools, riddled with bugs and with a lot of features removed.  I won't list them all as it's probably white noise, but the crux of it is I thought I was paying for a known set of tools, and now they have been taken away, and I have been given a new set of worse tools, that I may well have not chosen to pay for, given the poor quality.
• OddsMonkey have promised changes and fixes, this has been about 3 weeks now and some changes have been applied, but I can see in my weekly profits that I am doing worse because of the worse tools.  I'm willing to wait a bit, if the tools are certain to be fixed, but the constant failed promises are making me think it will still be an inferior product anyway in 12 months time.
• OddsMonkey are registered in Malta, if that makes a difference.

I've been trying to read up on the consumer rights act, particularly the digital services part, but the thing I'm struggling with is that my complaint feels more along the lines of this being a "bait and switch" issue, i.e. I paid for one thing, but am receiving something entirely different, that I did not trial and that I would not have accepted as of adequate quality to pay for, had it had been the offering.

Where do the forumites and resident experts think I might stand on either of these two financial complaints:

1. Asking for compensation for the loss of income, due to the removed features from the tooling?
2. Asking for a pro-rata refund of my subscription (and of course a cancellation of my services)?

Is there anything else I should do?  I will of course raise a complaint but should I stop using my sub, even though I can still make some money from it (I don't want to give up all the income, even it its reduced now)?  I would sign up for a rival service, but only if I think I will get a refund for my paid yearly fee, as its not cheap!

Thanks a lot for anyone reading who got to the end and especially so for anyone who might chime in with some thoughts.  I'm a bit confused about what to do at this point.

Not sure loss on income where gambling is involved is ever going to wash.

*DISCLAIMER: We’re legally required to state that there is no guarantee of specific results each month. The amount of money that you earn can vary dependant on the time and effort that you commit each month.

PHK

born_again said:

Maverick192 said:

Hi all,

I'll preface this by saying I'm not really sure what my rights are as a consumer here, and I'm interested to know if anyone could give an opinion on whether refunds are appropriate or not under these circumstances.

My gut feeling is probably that I can't ask for a refund (and expect to get one) but I am angry about what's happened and as feedback is being largely ignored by the company, I feel like a refund request is the only way I can register my disgust in a way that will affect them.

Ok, so the outline of the story:

• I am a member of OddsMonkey, the matched betting subscription service that helps people make a bit of cash from bookies welcome offers and free bets.
• I signed up a year ago to the value betting tier and my sub recently renewed.  I am paying the best part of £500 per year, as a 12 month subscription, so I have 11 months left on my 12 month sub.  Some people will be paying more, or will have renewals coming up.
• For the last 13 months, I've been happy with the tools and services provided.  No issues whatsoever, and I was happy to renew for another year.
• Last month, without warning (well, one days notice) OddsMonkey migrated me over to a new inferior set of tools, riddled with bugs and with a lot of features removed.  I won't list them all as it's probably white noise, but the crux of it is I thought I was paying for a known set of tools, and now they have been taken away, and I have been given a new set of worse tools, that I may well have not chosen to pay for, given the poor quality.
• OddsMonkey have promised changes and fixes, this has been about 3 weeks now and some changes have been applied, but I can see in my weekly profits that I am doing worse because of the worse tools.  I'm willing to wait a bit, if the tools are certain to be fixed, but the constant failed promises are making me think it will still be an inferior product anyway in 12 months time.
• OddsMonkey are registered in Malta, if that makes a difference.

I've been trying to read up on the consumer rights act, particularly the digital services part, but the thing I'm struggling with is that my complaint feels more along the lines of this being a "bait and switch" issue, i.e. I paid for one thing, but am receiving something entirely different, that I did not trial and that I would not have accepted as of adequate quality to pay for, had it had been the offering.

Where do the forumites and resident experts think I might stand on either of these two financial complaints:

1. Asking for compensation for the loss of income, due to the removed features from the tooling?
2. Asking for a pro-rata refund of my subscription (and of course a cancellation of my services)?

Is there anything else I should do?  I will of course raise a complaint but should I stop using my sub, even though I can still make some money from it (I don't want to give up all the income, even it its reduced now)?  I would sign up for a rival service, but only if I think I will get a refund for my paid yearly fee, as its not cheap!

Thanks a lot for anyone reading who got to the end and especially so for anyone who might chime in with some thoughts.  I'm a bit confused about what to do at this point.

Not sure loss on income where gambling is involved is ever going to wash.

*DISCLAIMER: We’re legally required to state that there is no guarantee of specific results each month. The amount of money that you earn can vary dependant on the time and effort that you commit each month.

These things are sold to people as a form of (high risk) investment. Legally they aren’t a form of gambling except HMRC consider them so and treat profits as tax-free. 

It’s not really a consumer rights question. 

Luckily, the terms and conditions state that English Law applies. The OP should seek advice from a specialist solicitor as it MIGHT  be possible to sue for breach of contract unless the terms say that the tools available may change. Or that it MIGHT be an unfair contract. 

It’s unregulated.  The FCA and ASA are looking at these along with other high risk investments such a CFDs which sometimes are marketed to the wrong people. 

Maverick192

Alderbank said:

The consumer rights act doesn't really help you much with purposes to do with your trade, business, craft or profession.

Ok fair point, although I wouldn't say matched betting is my trade or profession.  From a simplistic point of view, I pay a subscription to OM to access a number of tools that make my matched betting quicker, such as an odds matcher, but OM don't pay me an income (money I make comes from the bookmakers). 

That was why I thought I might be able to apply consumer rights, as it's over access to digital tools, a bit like having an Office 365 subscription, but where they have suddenly removed your access to MS Excel.

I accept that it's not overly clear though what if any consumer protections apply though, which was the reason for my post.

Maverick192

PHK said:

These things are sold to people as a form of (high risk) investment. Legally they aren’t a form of gambling except HMRC consider them so and treat profits as tax-free. 

It’s not really a consumer rights question. 

Luckily, the terms and conditions state that English Law applies. The OP should seek advice from a specialist solicitor as it MIGHT  be possible to sue for breach of contract unless the terms say that the tools available may change. Or that it MIGHT be an unfair contract. 

It’s unregulated.  The FCA and ASA are looking at these along with other high risk investments such a CFDs which sometimes are marketed to the wrong people. 

Thank you, appreciate the reply.

So firstly, I don't feel like this is any sort of mis-selling or anything like that.  I knew what I was getting, I knew what I was doing, and it's all been good for a year.

It's not as if I feel OM has mis-sold me on what matched betting is or on how much money can be made from it, it's more akin to the tools I trialed and paid for have been removed and replaced with inferior tools (and in some cases features I used have just been removed).  Like I said to the poster above, to me the analogy is having an Office 365 sub, paid for a year in advance, and then they remove Excel from the package.

As you say it may be more a breach of contract perhaps if its not a consumer rights thing.

born_again

Could be bookmakers have changed their software to block access to these sorts of companies, so OddsMonkey are  unable to use the tools they had before?

Maverick192

born_again said:

Could be bookmakers have changed their software to block access to these sorts of companies, so OddsMonkey are  unable to use the tools they had before?

It's related to a merger between the two big players in the market, OddsMonkey and Outplayed.  Where they used to be two companies with two sets of tools, they are now all under one ownership and they are (rightly from their business perspective) trying to consolidate the platforms.

Everyone on Odds Monkey is being migrated to the Outplayed tools, but no consideration was given to the differences between features in those tools which is where the problems originate from.  Hence Odds Monkey customers feeling somewhat short changed.