Faster buy/sell than Vanguard?

lastminuteinvestor123

Hi. I have a pension/savings strategy that uses Vanguard which was an appropriate company to use for my previous circumstances, where I had a steady income and only ever wanted to regularly buy and not sell and their fees were low. My circumstances have now changed and a few times a year I’ll have to sell and the delay between the order and it being actions is too long (it just cost me £2k on a sell order because of market change during the delay). I mainly use the Vanguard FTSE Developed World ex-UK accumulation fund. 

Does anyone know if there’s a different company I could buy/sell that fund (or very similar) from who have a more immediate response to a sell order and whose fees are still quite low? 

Thank you. 

eskbanker

I'd suggest reading up on the differences between ETFs and OEICs, one of the key variances being that the former is traded live in real time but the latter isn't (and entails a lag of at least a day), so you need to choose the right sort of instrument for your needs, rather than pointing the finger at your chosen platform or fund manager, neither of whom affect what you're describing.

However, investing money that you need quick access to in a global equity index tracker is an extraordinarily risky thing to do in the first place, why would you do that?

Eyeful

As already been mentioned look into the difference between ETF's & OEIC's

It is because of the sharp drop in share prices when you need it, that the recommendation is.to have

1. Any emergency savings account holding at least 6 to 12 months of house hold bills.
 
2. Any money you know you will need within the next 5 years should be in either
(a) NS&I savings account
(b) Bank or Building Savings account covered by the FSCS Savings Protection Scheme.

dont_use_vistaprint

I had exactly the same issue in the past , I don’t think the solution is to hold emergency savings,  the solution is to find a trading platform that works faster. When I sell, it’s not because I need the money -  it’s because I want to sell at the price that it is right now. 

Op - I sold some VLS80 yesterday on ii and it took less than 5 mins to complete the sell and then another 10 to move the cash from pending. The price that was given was the price when I hit the button . Sells cost £3.99, plus £11.99 monthly fee. if you sell more than 100 K split it in two it cost £8 instead of £30/40

ColdIron

But to withdraw the proceeds you will have to wait until the settlement date, typically 2 to 4 days

I think you may be confused about the unit price. OEICs are forward priced and you would have got the price at the next valuation point, 21:00 for VLS

dont_use_vistaprint

ColdIron said:

But to withdraw the proceeds you will have to wait until the settlement date, typically 2 to 4 days

I think you may be confused about the unit price. OEICs are forward priced and you would have got the price at the next valuation point, 21:00 for VLS

You might be right, actually. I sold a mixture of VLS, VUSA & was able to put one of them straight into money markets, and one I was not. I was trying to do it this morning, but the system is off-line for weekend maintenance :-(

When  doing this activity like when the market is flat after a climb and you want to sit in Money markets for a while how do you know which things you can sell fast Which are gonna take a few days? 

eskbanker

dont_use_vistaprint said:

ColdIron said:

But to withdraw the proceeds you will have to wait until the settlement date, typically 2 to 4 days

I think you may be confused about the unit price. OEICs are forward priced and you would have got the price at the next valuation point, 21:00 for VLS

You might be right, actually. I sold a mixture of VLS, VUSA & was able to put one of them straight into money markets, and one I was not. I was trying to do it this morning, but the system is off-line for weekend maintenance :-(

When  doing this activity like when the market is flat after a climb and you want to sit in Money markets for a while how do you know which things you can sell fast Which are gonna take a few days? 

As above, you learn the difference between ETFs (instant) and OEICs (not instant)!

dont_use_vistaprint

eskbanker said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

ColdIron said:

But to withdraw the proceeds you will have to wait until the settlement date, typically 2 to 4 days

I think you may be confused about the unit price. OEICs are forward priced and you would have got the price at the next valuation point, 21:00 for VLS

You might be right, actually. I sold a mixture of VLS, VUSA & was able to put one of them straight into money markets, and one I was not. I was trying to do it this morning, but the system is off-line for weekend maintenance :-(

When  doing this activity like when the market is flat after a climb and you want to sit in Money markets for a while how do you know which things you can sell fast Which are gonna take a few days? 

As above, you learn the difference between ETFs (instant) and OEICs (not instant)!

How do you know which is which? Just researched a few things I’m investing and I don’t see any of those terms OEIC mentioned in the names or descriptions

Notepad_Phil

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I had exactly the same issue in the past , I don’t think the solution is to hold emergency savings,  the solution is to find a trading platform that works faster. When I sell, it’s not because I need the money -  it’s because I want to sell at the price that it is right now. 

Op - I sold some VLS80 yesterday on ii and it took less than 5 mins to complete the sell and then another 10 to move the cash from pending. The price that was given was the price when I hit the button . Sells cost £3.99, plus £11.99 monthly fee. if you sell more than 100 K split it in two it cost £8 instead of £30/40

Are you sure that it was VLS80 that you sold and not an ETF like VWRL - VLS80 is an OIEC and is priced once a day at 9pm in the evening.  The last time I sold VLS80 on ii I put the request in at 8am and the price I eventually got at 9pm that night was definitely different from when I put in my sell request. However if it was an ETF then yes, provided you sell whilst the markets are open, then you will get a selling price and you can sell at that price if you accept the quote within the small amount of seconds that the quote remains open for.

EthicsGradient

dont_use_vistaprint said:

eskbanker said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

ColdIron said:

But to withdraw the proceeds you will have to wait until the settlement date, typically 2 to 4 days

I think you may be confused about the unit price. OEICs are forward priced and you would have got the price at the next valuation point, 21:00 for VLS

You might be right, actually. I sold a mixture of VLS, VUSA & was able to put one of them straight into money markets, and one I was not. I was trying to do it this morning, but the system is off-line for weekend maintenance :-(

When  doing this activity like when the market is flat after a climb and you want to sit in Money markets for a while how do you know which things you can sell fast Which are gonna take a few days? 

As above, you learn the difference between ETFs (instant) and OEICs (not instant)!

How do you know which is which? Just researched a few things I’m investing and I don’t see any of those terms OEIC mentioned in the names or descriptions

Most ETF descriptions do have "ETF" in the title. They are Exchange Traded Funds, which are traded between the holders on stock exchanges all through the working day. OEICs are Open Ended Investment Companies, which you (or your platform) buy and sell from the manager, at one fixed time per day (after you've put in your order). This is the technical category for what is typically just called a "fund". On ii, when you look up an investment, it's normally separated into "shares and ETFs" (which also includes investment trusts) and "funds". The investment will also have a KIID - Key Investor Information Document - which made it clear which it was (and which ii requires you to say you've read before you invest).
eg
KIID-Invesco S&P 500 UCITS ETF EUR Hdg Acc - an ETF
https://www.assetmanagement.hsbc.co.uk/api/v1/download/document/gb0000469071/gb/en/kiid - an OEIC

Albermarle

Another obvious difference is that when you sell an ETF , you get given the market price and usually have a set time to agree to it ( or not) - 30 seconds on my platform.
With an OEIC there is no rush as the actual price is only fixed once a day.

Also look at the investment details. Here is a global index fund OEIC.

Fidelity Index World Fund P Accumulation Key Statistics | GB00BJS8SJ34 | Fidelity

Look at the key stats- second line down.

Here is a global index fund ETF

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation Key Statistics | IE00BK5BQT80 | Fidelity

Look at its full title.