Chargeback on faulty PC

dumpster_fire2025

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

fwor said:

Alderbank said:

once the seller has had one unsuccessful attempt to fix the machine, the right to reject the laptop for a full refund.

But you need to be careful here. The seller could argue that they have had no opportunities to fix the machine so far. They have (so far) advised the buyer on things they can do to diagnose the problem, but it seems reasonable to argue that they (the seller) would need to have the laptop with them to be able to attempt a repair.

It does seem (to me) to be reasonable that the seller should at least have the option to attempt a fix with the laptop in their possession. I know from personal experience what it can be like trying to diagnose a computer problem remotely.

The word repair is clarified under Section 23 as: “repair” in relation to goods that do not conform to a contract, means making them conform. 

So any action really could be a repair rather than what we would colloquially deem the word to mean. 

In this instance the new RAM being provided would certainly be a repair now giving the right to reject, should they have wished to attempt a fix in their possession that should have been their first offering   

By your own argument you're wrong.

If "repair " means making the goods conform to contract, and the "repair" the OP has had does not make them conform to contract, it is therefore clear that it has not been repaired and the right to reject doesn't currently exist.

It might do if they're not repaired in a reasonable time, but there is no evidence of that from the OPs post.

ANGELFLOWER

dumpster_fire2025 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

fwor said:

Alderbank said:

once the seller has had one unsuccessful attempt to fix the machine, the right to reject the laptop for a full refund.

But you need to be careful here. The seller could argue that they have had no opportunities to fix the machine so far. They have (so far) advised the buyer on things they can do to diagnose the problem, but it seems reasonable to argue that they (the seller) would need to have the laptop with them to be able to attempt a repair.

It does seem (to me) to be reasonable that the seller should at least have the option to attempt a fix with the laptop in their possession. I know from personal experience what it can be like trying to diagnose a computer problem remotely.

The word repair is clarified under Section 23 as: “repair” in relation to goods that do not conform to a contract, means making them conform. 

So any action really could be a repair rather than what we would colloquially deem the word to mean. 

In this instance the new RAM being provided would certainly be a repair now giving the right to reject, should they have wished to attempt a fix in their possession that should have been their first offering   

By your own argument you're wrong.

If "repair " means making the goods conform to contract, and the "repair" the OP has had does not make them conform to contract, it is therefore clear that it has not been repaired and the right to reject doesn't currently exist.

It might do if they're not repaired in a reasonable time, but there is no evidence of that from the OPs post.

What is a reasonable time frame? Surely the inconvenience caused by the computer not working correctly comes in here. "After 30 days  purchase - Significant inconvenience: If the repair or replacement fails, or if it would cause you significant inconvenience to allow the seller to perform one, you have a "final right to reject" the item and get a refund."  My son has had to go into University out of hours, including weekends to complete work as he can't use the computer we purchased to be able to do the work at home. This is an inconvenience. I have also heard that sending the PC for repair is not quick, and being without the PC would be a further inconvenience.  Constantly doing tests and trying to fix the PC is also time consuming and an inconvenience. We purchased the PC at the beginning of September, and he hasn't been able to use it fully as it keeps crashing. It is surely not as described. The RAM repair did not work, so the right of reject exists. A repair not working is an attempt at repair.

LightFlare

Was this a pre-built system or built from a selection of drop downs ?

I’m not heading down the bespoke direction but wondering if some of the selections may actually be incompatible for some reason or has he added any components to the build ?

A number of system crashes are due to the PSU not being sufficient for the CPU and GPU or the case/cooling being insufficient to keep cooling under control.

However- if it worked fine for a while and then started crashing - that would more suggest a software or driver issue - but you say a full reinstall was done.

He can either return to them for repair/refund or I would be tempted to find someone at Uni with a bit of knowledge to help diagnose/fix the issue.
Pretty sure there must be some smart computer types around.

He could also try:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/

There are some very clever and helpful people there

MattMattMattUK

When you say crashes what do you actually mean, application crashes, BSOD, freezes, something else? The logs should give a pretty clear of the cause for most things. I agree with the above post, get a friendly geek to take a look, it could software rather than hardware which would be easily fixable.

ANGELFLOWER

It was a prebuilt so everything should be compatible. It crashes during games, even Roblox which he was using on his Laptop before without a GPU, so not just high end games. By crashing, he has had blue screens, but usually the PC just switches off, sometimes the game crashes but the PC stays on. The crashes are random, in that he can play for a bit then it crashes. It also crashes when using Adobe graphics software when doing his Uni work, which is why he needed a PC with a GPU. Event Viewer showed VOLMGR Errors and Kernal errors around times of crashes. We haven't been offered any other replacement parts as it could be the power supply? I don't know enough about computers to know exactly what is wrong but we have lifetime support and the company should know as we did send them the Event Viewer files. We don't really want to return it for a refund as it was a good price and the specs are right for what he needs, it is just frustrating all this work we have had to do and the uncertainty if there is a fault that can't be fixed. We have now rolled back the GPU driver on the merchants advice which may actually be a fix, as he was able to use the computer yesterday for a few hours with no issues, but he needs to test it more to be sure. Fingers crossed

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

dumpster_fire2025 said:

By your own argument you're wrong.

If "repair " means making the goods conform to contract, and the "repair" the OP has had does not make them conform to contract, it is therefore clear that it has not been repaired and the right to reject doesn't currently exist.

It might do if they're not repaired in a reasonable time, but there is no evidence of that from the OPs post.

The definition of repair mentioned applies to the chapter (2 Goods), Section 24 notes

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

(5)A consumer who has the right to a price reduction and the final right to reject may only exercise one (not both), and may only do so in one of these situations—

(a)after one repair or one replacement, the goods do not conform to the contract;

If after one action of making the goods conform, the goods do not conform the consumer may reject.

ANGELFLOWER said:

What is a reasonable time frame? Surely the inconvenience caused by the computer not working correctly comes in here. "After 30 days  purchase - Significant inconvenience: If the repair or replacement fails, or if it would cause you significant inconvenience to allow the seller to perform one, you have a "final right to reject" the item and get a refund."  My son has had to go into University out of hours, including weekends to complete work as he can't use the computer we purchased to be able to do the work at home. This is an inconvenience. I have also heard that sending the PC for repair is not quick, and being without the PC would be a further inconvenience.  Constantly doing tests and trying to fix the PC is also time consuming and an inconvenience. We purchased the PC at the beginning of September, and he hasn't been able to use it fully as it keeps crashing. It is surely not as described. The RAM repair did not work, so the right of reject exists. A repair not working is an attempt at repair.

OP reasonable time doesn't matter here, you have the right to reject so need to:

Tell the company you are rejecting
Either return the goods or if the terms say they will collect rejected goods make them available for collection
The company must refund within 14 days of agreeing a refund is due. This is matter of fact and must be established without undue delay
If the company doesn't then you send a letter before action and follow through with small claims.
If they say there is nothing wrong with the PC or it was user error they must demonstrate such on the balance of probability, which usually means an independent opinion based upon an inspection.  

The CRA notes a consumer is "“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession." 

I'm not really sure whether studying falls within that or not.

LightFlare

whilst I fully agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head and their obvious expansive knowledge - I do have an "issue" with laptops and PCs

Typically on receipt, a customer will switch them on, set up user accounts and install all their software/games etc. They might update a few drivers and install peripherals (along with their software) and THEN discover that they are getting crashes,freezes, BSOD etc

I would argue that a return based on faulty goods would not be quite as clear cut.

In this case - the OP states that the PC worked fine for a month and then started experiencing issues - to me, this would indicate something the user has done as opposed to the item being faulty

MattMattMattUK

ANGELFLOWER said:

It was a prebuilt so everything should be compatible. It crashes during games, even Roblox which he was using on his Laptop before without a GPU, so not just high end games. By crashing, he has had blue screens, but usually the PC just switches off, sometimes the game crashes but the PC stays on. The crashes are random, in that he can play for a bit then it crashes. It also crashes when using Adobe graphics software when doing his Uni work, which is why he needed a PC with a GPU. Event Viewer showed VOLMGR Errors and Kernal errors around times of crashes. We haven't been offered any other replacement parts as it could be the power supply? I don't know enough about computers to know exactly what is wrong but we have lifetime support and the company should know as we did send them the Event Viewer files. We don't really want to return it for a refund as it was a good price and the specs are right for what he needs, it is just frustrating all this work we have had to do and the uncertainty if there is a fault that can't be fixed. We have now rolled back the GPU driver on the merchants advice which may actually be a fix, as he was able to use the computer yesterday for a few hours with no issues, but he needs to test it more to be sure. Fingers crossed

That is a storage drive error, it could be a poorly seated M.2 but much more likely a failing/flawed drive.

ANGELFLOWER

LightFlare said:

whilst I fully agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head and their obvious expansive knowledge - I do have an "issue" with laptops and PCs

Typically on receipt, a customer will switch them on, set up user accounts and install all their software/games etc. They might update a few drivers and install peripherals (along with their software) and THEN discover that they are getting crashes,freezes, BSOD etc

I would argue that a return based on faulty goods would not be quite as clear cut.

In this case - the OP states that the PC worked fine for a month and then started experiencing issues - to me, this would indicate something the user has done as opposed to the item being faulty

The RAM was found to be faulty after a month of use, as when the PC started to crash we were told to do some tests which showed the RAM was faulty. Therefore there was a fault with the PC. Changing the RAM did not solve the issue, but shows the PC may not have been tested prior to dispatch? Or can RAM fail after a month of use, I guess it is possible. 

MattMattMattUK

ANGELFLOWER said:

LightFlare said:

whilst I fully agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head and their obvious expansive knowledge - I do have an "issue" with laptops and PCs

Typically on receipt, a customer will switch them on, set up user accounts and install all their software/games etc. They might update a few drivers and install peripherals (along with their software) and THEN discover that they are getting crashes,freezes, BSOD etc

I would argue that a return based on faulty goods would not be quite as clear cut.

In this case - the OP states that the PC worked fine for a month and then started experiencing issues - to me, this would indicate something the user has done as opposed to the item being faulty

The RAM was found to be faulty after a month of use, as when the PC started to crash we were told to do some tests which showed the RAM was faulty. Therefore there was a fault with the PC. Changing the RAM did not solve the issue, but shows the PC may not have been tested prior to dispatch? Or can RAM fail after a month of use, I guess it is possible. 

RAM can fail at any point, it may also not fail as such, but it might not show errors until it is stressed, it might not show until it it got hot, until it writes to the sectors with issues, even then it would only cause a crash if it wrote something critical to those sectors. The same can happen with storage and that BSOD code is a storage error code.