Is the driver liable

MyRealNameToo

sheenas said:

It's a drivers responsibility to be insured and I am thinking it's his responsibility to pay the 3rd party and the company for their losses. So it could be reported to the Police?

Driving an employers vehicle is one of the only defences for driving without insurance thats allowed, given it's a strict liability offence. If he reasonably assumed the employers were insuring the vehicle it can be a defence to a prosecution for driving without insurance. 

ChirpyChicken said:

MattMattMattUK said:

ChirpyChicken said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Was driver asked about points and lied? Or was the question not asked?

yes and they didnt disclose

Were they asked verbally, in writing? Did they not respond, or did they lie? How many points are we talking?

I dont know the answer to that sorry

Similarly was he asked to show his licence inc the code to look up his points? 

Also is it that gap where the points have come off the licence but are still declarable to insurers and therefore they may not have been asked the right question?

Or were the points after starting employment and they weren't correctly instructed to keep their employer informed of any changes?

Mildly_Miffed

ChirpyChicken said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Was driver asked about points and lied? Or was the question not asked?

yes and they didnt disclose

The employer is a fool for not actually taking a copy of the driver's licence, and using the DVLA tools to check the status of it.
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

The employer will certainly be on the hook for the bill.
Whether they chase the driver for recompense will be a business decision.
Whether they get anywhere will be one for employment lawyers to argue, based on the fine detail of the employment contract.

Certainly, it CAN BE a legally enforceable debt for the driver, subject to that fine print.

leosayer

For normal car insurance, an insurance company can't just refuse to pay out if something wasn't disclosed. The exception to this is when they wouldn't have insured the vehicle/driver had the disclosure been made at the start.

However haulage vehicle insurance is likely to be different because it's a business to business arrangement. 

Car_54

sheenas said:

It's a drivers responsibility to be insured and I am thinking it's his responsibility to pay the 3rd party and the company for their losses. So it could be reported to the Police?

A criminal prosecution is unlikely  The driver would have a statutory defence that (1) he was driving in the course of his employment, and (2) he "neither knew nor had reason to believe" that he was uninsured. It would be difficult to prove that he knew the detailed terms of his employer's policy.

MyRealNameToo

leosayer said:

For normal car insurance, an insurance company can't just refuse to pay out if something wasn't disclosed. The exception to this is when they wouldn't have insured the vehicle/driver had the disclosure been made at the start.

However haulage vehicle insurance is likely to be different because it's a business to business arrangement. 

Yes they can, CIDRA would allow them to void the policy and avoid the claim if they can show the non-disclosure was intentional or reckless. If they accept it was careless then it comes down to if they would have provided cover had it been declared.  

They would however remain the RTA insurer of the vehicle which means they can be forced to settle the claim and then would have a right of recovery from the driver at the time and/or the policyholder if the policyholder was complicit in the breach. 

It may well be cheaper for the person to settle directly with the third party, particularly if the insurer uses a TPA to claims handling for them as there would be additional costs to pay for the allocated claims costs.

CIDRA won't apply to a haulage contract as it only applies to consumer contracts but commercial contracts will often have similar terms about avoiding claims in the event of non-disclosure. 

jimjames

Mildly_Miffed said:

ChirpyChicken said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Was driver asked about points and lied? Or was the question not asked?

yes and they didnt disclose

The employer is a fool for not actually taking a copy of the driver's licence, and using the DVLA tools to check the status of it.

I was thinking that too. When I've needed to prove licence status I've had to give employer a code so they can check with DVLA rather than relying on my word for it. If the employer doesn't do that then that seems poor process on their part and has now bitten them.

Grey_Critic

I produce (among other documentation) technician’s passports for several companies - these list ALL qualifications required for their employment.

Page 1 shows in addition to their picture - Name - Address - NI Number - DRIVING LICENCE - First Aid Certificate (requirement for the role)

It is a requirement that the above and all other qualifications are seen, checked and renewed when due. The companies also maintain a register that lists expiry dates/endorsements.

The companies may lose their authorisation to carry out work if now kept up to date (worth millions in many cases) if they fail to do so on regular audits.

I know of several companies who have.

MEM62

In my opinion, down to the employer for not conducting the proper driving licence check. 

Okell

MyRealNameToo said:

sheenas said:

It's a drivers responsibility to be insured and I am thinking it's his responsibility to pay the 3rd party and the company for their losses. So it could be reported to the Police?

... Also is it that gap where the points have come off the licence but are still declarable to insurers and therefore they may not have been asked the right question?...

Are you saying that the points could have dropped off his licence for all purposes other than insurance?

Does that mean that even if the employer had checked his licence for insurance purposes, the points might not have shown up?

Car_54

Okell said:

MyRealNameToo said:

sheenas said:

It's a drivers responsibility to be insured and I am thinking it's his responsibility to pay the 3rd party and the company for their losses. So it could be reported to the Police?

... Also is it that gap where the points have come off the licence but are still declarable to insurers and therefore they may not have been asked the right question?...

Are you saying that the points could have dropped off his licence for all purposes other than insurance?

Does that mean that even if the employer had checked his licence for insurance purposes, the points might not have shown up?

Points remain on the licence for four years from the offence date.

Four years is all insurers normally ask. If they ask for more, they have no means of checking the veracity of answer.