Garden, but no garden.

AlexMac

Your conveyancing solicitor is being paid to sort stuff like this, so its good that you've dumped the less competent conveyancer in favour of a real one. 

Each time I've bought flats or houses however, the conveyancer has put the onus on me. in their final, pre-contract "report on title"; with a request that I inspect, check and confirm that the property and its and boundaries match the land registry plan and red lines.

So who is saying;
"There are coflicting Land Registry plans"?

And which version describes what YOUR conveyancing solicitor says you are buying? Presumably there were some boundaries or fences in place when you visited?

If you can live without a back yard, and it's otherwise a perfect fit for you, go for it.  Although If I'd made an offer on a House and Garden, and the garden disappeared mid sale, I'd expect a reduction? I'd also be asking my solicitor to advise on what rights of access I'd have for stuff like external maintenance, scaffolding for repairs, window or roof replacement etc in future.

In two instances in my housebuying experience there was confusion or ambiguity about whether external space was part of what I was buying.  Initially I replied that it didn't really matter, as the external space concerned (a small low-level paved patio in a semi- basement garden flat) was really only easily accessed by me from my door, and that it was unlikely anyone else would use it for BBQ's, to hang out washing or hold midnight raves,  My solicitor, however insisted that it be sorted, legally, by some sort of deed, at the seller's expense.  Otherwise, they said, it would come back to bit me when I eventually sold on.  In fact a mate of mine discovered just such discrepancies in the Title when he was buying a converted property, and used this as leverage to screw thousands off the price (he was a hard bestid though!)

I'm don't understand what you mean by;
 "... they also appear to show ownership of the area of access up to the rear of a sports field. This is currently a paved access to the rear of other properties. I just wonder whether the local council is aware/would approve of this. Just appears like a land grab to me".

You presumably mean that in practice you can walk from your back door to a local Sports Field? 

The question to ask your solicitor is whether you actually have the "Right" to access this, as it appears to involve crossing other peoples' properties? 

Not owning the land which my back door opened on to would be very close to a deal breaker for me.  Not being allowed to walk to it from an open local public space would be a no-no (for me at least).

But everything is fixable (by lawyers) given money and time; do you have enough of each?  Good luck in handling this at an already stressful time.  And sympathies on your bereavement and congratulations on handling the relationships so well with your ex.  

Davesquire

Thank-you so much for your comments. They have given me a lot to think about. I will now go back to my conveyancer and request that a clause is inserted to include reasonable access for repairs etc. and that any use of the garden does not interfere with my right to enjoyment - i.e. no barbeques or anything which could reduce my view, even temporarily.
The issue over the accesway is one of common access, along the rear of all properties which the neighbours boundary appears to close off. In theory, I would not be able to exit the rear of my property at all.
I hope to keep the forum updated on progress, if only for the benefit of anyone else who finds themselves in a similar situation.

bobster2

Davesquire said:

Thank-you so much for your comments. They have given me a lot to think about. I will now go back to my conveyancer and request that a clause is inserted to include reasonable access for repairs etc. and that any use of the garden does not interfere with my right to enjoyment - i.e. no barbeques or anything which could reduce my view, even temporarily.
The issue over the accesway is one of common access, along the rear of all properties which the neighbours boundary appears to close off. In theory, I would not be able to exit the rear of my property at all.
I hope to keep the forum updated on progress, if only for the benefit of anyone else who finds themselves in a similar situation.

If you're buying property A - and the garden area belongs to property B - you cannot simply, as part of the transaction, have clauses inserted into your deeds for property A giving you rights, or clauses inserted in the deeds of property B restricting their rights. The owners of property B are not involved in this transaction.

What you can do is check the deeds to see whether there are covenants there which might give you a right of access / use. 

GDB2222

Even if the Land Registry plans showed the garden as being part of the property you want to buy, that would not stop the seller from refusing to include the garden in their sale to you. It seems the garden has already been sold to the next door property, so the HA cannot sell it to you. Unless they can buy it back.

You need your solicitor to explain exactly what the situation is, and then you will have to decide whether to cut your losses and look elsewhere. If you can’t find freehold in your price range then maybe you should at least consider leasehold. 

brianposter

It might be a good idea to ask the next door neighbour for their version of the situation.

Sarataylor

I completely understand your frustration, it sounds like you’ve been very patient. The conflicting Land Registry details need to be clarified formally, so I’d recommend asking your solicitor to contact the Land Registry directly or consider changing to a specialist conveyancer experienced with housing association sales.

bobster2

Sarataylor said:

I completely understand your frustration, it sounds like you’ve been very patient. The conflicting Land Registry details need to be clarified formally, so I’d recommend asking your solicitor to contact the Land Registry directly or consider changing to a specialist conveyancer experienced with housing association sales.

A recent post from the OP suggests there are no conflicting details on the title plans. Simply that the plans for the 2 properties show that the neighbour owns the area you would assume was the garden of the property OP wants to buy.

So it appears the estate agent has advertised the property incorrectly (i.e. with a garden).

Not sure what the LR can clarify under the circumstances?

If OP wants to go ahead - they need to read the deeds to see whether they at least have a right of way over this "garden".

WIAWSNB

Hi Dave.
Have you been proved sight of the deeds for this property? You can download a copy of 'yours' right away for just a £ew. And worth doing ditto for the neighbour too.
Good chance the answer will be in words, and not the 'map'.
This could, for example, be a 'communal' garden, owned by one, but with entitled access by others. The deeds would/should make this clear.
If that's the case, then it could also have restrictions on what it can be used for - BBQs, outbuildings, etc. And, it would hopefully clarify that you do have rights to exit over it, and use it as part of the included folk.
Would that be an ok scenario? A 'shared' garden?
You had a separate concern regarding access for maintenance? That should not be a problem - afaIk, everybody has this 'right' via neighbouring land, and it can be enforced - if needed - using a court order. The vast majority of neighb's just say, "Of course!".
This has to be your call, of course, but I'd strongly suggest that if it turns out the garden is fully and exclusively owned by the other property, and you don't have an easement or covenant that allows you to cross it, and if it goes right up to a clear window, then the property would have to be compellingly cheap. 

Davesquire

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Dave.
Have you been proved sight of the deeds for this property? You can download a copy of 'yours' right away for just a £ew. And worth doing ditto for the neighbour too.
Good chance the answer will be in words, and not the 'map'.
This could, for example, be a 'communal' garden, owned by one, but with entitled access by others. The deeds would/should make this clear.
If that's the case, then it could also have restrictions on what it can be used for - BBQs, outbuildings, etc. And, it would hopefully clarify that you do have rights to exit over it, and use it as part of the included folk.
Would that be an ok scenario? A 'shared' garden?
You had a separate concern regarding access for maintenance? That should not be a problem - afaIk, everybody has this 'right' via neighbouring land, and it can be enforced - if needed - using a court order. The vast majority of neighb's just say, "Of course!".
This has to be your call, of course, but I'd strongly suggest that if it turns out the garden is fully and exclusively owned by the other property, and you don't have an easement or covenant that allows you to cross it, and if it goes right up to a clear window, then the property would have to be compellingly cheap. 

Apologies for the delay in responding and thank-you for your wise words. 
I do have the deeds, but they are outdated and do not refer to the garden at all. I do now have a cunning plan and, yes, have asked my solicitor to suggest knocking a few bob off the price.

GDB2222

More than a few bob! A house without a garden is worth a lot less. Are you saying that there’s no outside space at all?