Moved from ESA to UC, ESA stopped, LWCRA added and then deducted

jonB

Hi, I'm writing this on behalf of my neighbour. She is deaf as well as other medical problems so on her behalf in the past I have rang PIP a number of times for queries etc. Last month she got her letter from ESA stating it was being replaced with UC and that she was invited to sign up for a UC account, if not, her benefit would come to an end, or something like that. She asked for my help in creating a UC account. As I haven't a clue about UC, ESA, the migration etc we did it together on my laptop. All seemed to work fine, account created, proved her ID, and we made a journal entry about her history (15 years on ESA in the support group), the fact she had problems leaving her flat, couldn't speak to anyone on the phone being deaf, suffered bad anxiety, panic attacks etc. 

Last week she got her first UC payment statement. This is the breakdown below. She's awarded UC, ESA has disappeared and replaced with LWCRA and then deducted for some reason that I can't work out from the message from UC! I haven't a clue what it all means so can anyone tell me if my neighbour now just gets £400 a month to live on instead of the £800 she was on for 15 plus years?  UC pay statement - 

Standard allowance - £400.14
Housing - £506.65
Limited capacity for work and work related activity - £423.27
Transitional protection - £236.74

Total - £1,566.80

Deductions 

Other benefits ESA - £609.05
Advanced payments - £45.02 (she asked for a UC advanced payment of £1,000)
Payment to your landlord - £506.65

Total deductions £1,160.72

Total payment for October £406.08

I contacted UC on her behalf this week on the phone, never in the past had a problem, both operators refused to speak to me even though my neighbour was sat here to answer via me any questions. Both times put the phone down on me! Sent a message via her journal to the pay department of UC asking why was she only getting £406, got a reply that was confusing to me (I haven't got the reply here as my neighbours not here so I can't look at her UC account). Something about UC awarded, and reduced pound for pound for ESA or something like that. 

All very confusing so my question is, has my neighbour lost £400 a month now she's on UC, and will she have to apply for a work capacity assessment even though she's been on ESA for 15 plus years in the support group?

Thank you.

itsthelittlethings

She should be getting the ESA that is being deducted as a separate payment.

jonB

Thank you from the reply Itsthelittlethings. Deductions Other benefits ESA - £609.05, so she's had ESA completely taken from her.

itsthelittlethings

jonB said:

Thank you from the reply Itsthelittlethings. Deductions Other benefits ESA - £609.05, so she's had ESA completely taken from her.

No, £609.05 is deducted from her UC due to the ESA which she is receiving. Thats what I understand. Has she missed an ESA payment yet?

Spoonie_Turtle

jonB said:

Thank you from the reply Itsthelittlethings. Deductions Other benefits ESA - £609.05, so she's had ESA completely taken from her.

No, she should still be getting ESA paid every two weeks like before.  Because she's still receiving it, the amount of ESA she's receiving is deducted in full from UC.  

(Does your neighbour not know about Relay UK for using the phone?
https://www.relayuk.bt.com/ )

Robbie64

Your neighbour was previously receiving both contributory ESA (based on her National Insurance contributions record) and income related ESA (a means tested top up). Only the income related ESA has migrated to UC. She should still be receiving the contributory version of ESA every fortnight (at the rate of £140.55 per week / £281.10 per fortnight). As posted above, the contributory version of ESA is deducted as income from her UC.

jonB

Thank you all for the replies. I will text her these comments as I haven't a clue what most of you are saying and that is not a nasty reply from me, I just find the whole UC thing confusing and I thought the Tories brought it in to simplify the benefits system?!

jonB

Spoonie_Turtle said:

jonB said:

Thank you from the reply Itsthelittlethings. Deductions Other benefits ESA - £609.05, so she's had ESA completely taken from her.

No, she should still be getting ESA paid every two weeks like before.  Because she's still receiving it, the amount of ESA she's receiving is deducted in full from UC.  

(Does your neighbour not know about Relay UK for using the phone?
https://www.relayuk.bt.com/ )

Thank you Spoonie. Yes, I noticed this Relay option but she's refused to try it. Its very frustrating sometimes trying to help her but I bite my lip cos I know she has loads of mental health problems. 

Muttleythefrog

Yes, as above the ESA is deducted an unearned income from UC. It is definitely worth retaining ESA in payment for a few reasons (which I/we probably won't bore you with here unless requested) despite this and it should be paid fortnightly as usual. UC operates to a monthly payment schedule whereas ESA payments are fortnightly and so the £609.05 will not reflect the ESA payments to her account (and if they do not appear then come back here for advice) suffice for a bit of maths (ESA amount per week x 52/12 should come to £609.05).

Otherwise I see no issues with the statement and familiar problem of failing to get LCWRA (UC equivalent of Support Group for ESA) transferred from ESA to UC has also not arisen here - possibly thanks to you and journal entry. It looks like her housing element is going straight to Landlord. It looks like she'll be better off and has transitional protection too - but monitor to ensure ESA payments continue fortnightly over the next few weeks for reassurance - £281.10 each fortnight if my maths right. I'd say if those payments continue then your job is done as far as benefits goes for them for now unless you assist with any PIP related stuff.

Well done for persevering! 

KxMx

Universal Credit was brought into replace 6 income related benefits, IR ESA being one of them.

Contributions Based ESA wasn't one of them, and converts into New Style ESA upon migration.

Her income is now UC plus New Style ESA. 

New Style ESA is £140.55 a week.

UC as a monthly benefit bases the deduction on a monthly ESA figure. There are 4.3 weeks in a month.

To convert a weekly benefit into a monthly you multiply the weekly amount by 52 then divide by 12. 

It doesn't matter if the individual gets 2 or 3 payments in any one month. The deduction will always be an average for a calendar month.

Rubyroobs

She needs to check her bank statements and make sure that the ESA is still being paid fortnightly £281. This is seperate to the Uc and in addition to the UC. The ESA is then deducted from the Uc at the £609.05 deduction monthly. They calculate this by calculating the weekly ESA rate x 52 divided by 12 to give an averaged monthly deduction because Uc is paid monthly and ESA fortnightly. The statement looks completely correct as long as she is getting the two weekly ESA payments. I had a  work client with exactly the same query/ worry  last week and was only looking at the UC statement letter and hadn't even looked at her bank statement where she then saw the ESA coming in separately.   .