Universal Credit Journal and ISA

_Jem_

I have updated my universal credit savings as now I have £8,000 in the ISA account, the last time I checked that account it was well under £6,000 I totally forgot about that ISA account when declaring my savings.

How long does it take them to respond in the journal? I need to get some stuff for my home and use the money that's in the ISA, I don't want them to think I'm just trying to spend the money to lower the savings limit.

Also does anyone know how you withdraw some money from a Scottish Widows ISA, is it transferred into a bank account.

Thanks

tacpot12

If you report the correct level of savings on the last day of your assessment period, you should be paid correctly. 

The only way to avoid even the suspicion that you are deliberately depriving yourself of assets is to provide them with evidence that the expenditure was necessary at the time you made it, e.g. your boiler failed and the heating engineer confirmed that it was beyond economic repair in writing.

Replacing washing machines (and tumble dryers) can also be an emergency. Tumble dryers may fall into the category of being an 'emergency' if you have children or a dirty job. Evidence from the appliacne engineer that the cost of the part is close to the cost of the machine you bought is good evidence. 

But it would be suspicious if your washing machine and tumble dryer both needed replacing in the same assessment period. That is so unlikely that it could raise suspicion. 

Sorry, I can't answer the question aout the Scottish Widows ISA as I don't know the product. You would be best off asking them what the option are. I expect that it can only be paid into a back account. Some ISAs have the concept of a linked (current) account which is the only one you can have withdrawals paid to. This is to cut down on fraud. 

Spoonie_Turtle

I would say to bear in mind the level of deduction you'd get if they did decide you were deliberately trying to deprive yourself of capital.  £4.35 per £250 still, based on them deciding the level of capital you still have as if you hadn't spent it, so for potentially just over £2000 that would be £39.15 per month.  So you may decide that the risk of that worst-case decision is worth it for the impact that the improvements have on your life.  Or you may not, but that's for you to decide.

Not exactly moneysaving, I know, but I think it can be helpful to quantify the issue at hand in order to make an informed decision rather than necessarily be scared of a nebulous 'they'll deem it deprivation'.

However you may also have an overpayment, if the ISA total didn't just change between last assessment period and this.  They may ask for statements, although I don't know how ISAs work on that front.  If they don't ask, you should tell them the amounts at the end of each AP (if you can find that out) - even with morals aside, when they do your review at some point they will almost certainly find out anyway, so better to get it sorted now.

_Jem_

tacpot12 said:

If you report the correct level of savings on the last day of your assessment period, you should be paid correctly. 

The only way to avoid even the suspicion that you are deliberately depriving yourself of assets is to provide them with evidence that the expenditure was necessary at the time you made it, e.g. your boiler failed and the heating engineer confirmed that it was beyond economic repair in writing.

Replacing washing machines (and tumble dryers) can also be an emergency. Tumble dryers may fall into the category of being an 'emergency' if you have children or a dirty job. Evidence from the appliacne engineer that the cost of the part is close to the cost of the machine you bought is good evidence. 

But it would be suspicious if your washing machine and tumble dryer both needed replacing in the same assessment period. That is so unlikely that it could raise suspicion. 

Sorry, I can't answer the question aout the Scottish Widows ISA as I don't know the product. You would be best off asking them what the option are. I expect that it can only be paid into a back account. Some ISAs have the concept of a linked (current) account which is the only one you can have withdrawals paid to. This is to cut down on fraud. 

I actually got my universal credit payment yesterday and today I updated my journal to say about the ISA, I was worried about not telling them so I quickly went into my journal and updated it.

The only things I need for my home is a sofa and a cooker.

It's not like me to forget about such important things but I had gone through such a bad relationship breakdown, and was worried about where I was going to live when I applied for universal credit and on top of that I have been going through some health conditions.

And to be honest the ISA savings never even entered my head as it was apparently setup when I was born.

Do you think as I have now updated the savings in my journal I should just wait until the next universal credit payment and then go from there.

I totally accept any punishment from universal credit as it's 100% my fault but wasn't done to commit fraud or anything like that.

_Jem_

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I would say to bear in mind the level of deduction you'd get if they did decide you were deliberately trying to deprive yourself of capital.  £4.35 per £250 still, based on them deciding the level of capital you still have as if you hadn't spent it, so for potentially just over £2000 that would be £39.15 per month.  So you may decide that the risk of that worst-case decision is worth it for the impact that the improvements have on your life.  Or you may not, but that's for you to decide.

Not exactly moneysaving, I know, but I think it can be helpful to quantify the issue at hand in order to make an informed decision rather than necessarily be scared of a nebulous 'they'll deem it deprivation'.

However you may also have an overpayment, if the ISA total didn't just change between last assessment period and this.  They may ask for statements, although I don't know how ISAs work on that front.  If they don't ask, you should tell them the amounts at the end of each AP (if you can find that out) - even with morals aside, when they do your review at some point they will almost certainly find out anyway, so better to get it sorted now.

Sounds like it's best to wait and find out if they want any further statements, before I start withdrawing money from the ISA.

When I filled it in it just asked to put in how much was in the account and enter the last four digits of the ISA account.

Do you think I should send a message to the payments section in the journal to speed things up?

tacpot12

This is just my opinion, but I think it would be better to draw out from the ISA now if you need to. If you can wait, then there is more of an argument that you are deliberately depriving yourself when you do spend the money. If the cooker has failed, try to get an some evidence that it is beyond economic repair. Even a text message from an appliance engineer sent while they are stood in your kitchen is better than nothing.

If you are falling through the seat of the sofa, take pictures. 

I didn't pick up on the fact that you will have been overpaid UC for some time. The amount of over-payment per month will have been growing slowly, but the total can quickly mount up. The one bright spot is that a repaying an overpayment of benefits definitely isn't deliberate deprivation of capital!

Hope you get it sorted quickly. 

_Jem_

tacpot12 said:

This is just my opinion, but I think it would be better to draw out from the ISA now if you need to. If you can wait, then there is more of an argument that you are deliberately depriving yourself when you do spend the money. If the cooker has failed, try to get an some evidence that it is beyond economic repair. Even a text message from an appliance engineer sent while they are stood in your kitchen is better than nothing.

If you are falling through the seat of the sofa, take pictures. 

I didn't pick up on the fact that you will have been overpaid UC for some time. The amount of over-payment per month will have been growing slowly, but the total can quickly mount up. The one bright spot is that a repaying an overpayment of benefits definitely isn't deliberate deprivation of capital!

Hope you get it sorted quickly. 

Thank you, I haven't had a cooker since I moved in so that will be easy to do, the sofa well that's a bit of a tough one as I bought it but it's the most uncomfortable thing and gives me a back ache, it was just a cheap thing.

Think I will phone up on Monday to see what I have to do to withdraw money from the ISA.

I have my car insurance due in December so that will be a good reason to withdraw some money.

As the cold weather will be here I would imagine it would be ok to add a top-up to my electric and heating account?

_Jem_

I will keep this updated as I think it will maybe useful for other people.

I have just registered the Scottish Widows app so I can see how much is there instead of phoning up, so I guess that's one good thing to come out of this.

What I have noticed in the app it's reporting £100 more than when I phoned them up yesterday. So it will be interesting on how I would report this to universal credit, as it's  Stocks and Shares so it could go up or down.

I'm in two minds on what I should do withdraw £3,000 on Monday or wait until I find out from universal credit what deductions and maybe fines they will give me. My mind on this is like stocks and shares my decision goes up and down. 

I would like to add more money into my heating and electricity account so I can have a better winter this year, I should really get a cooker and new bed but I could wait until I find out what universal credit will be doing.

Spoonie_Turtle

_Jem_ said:

What I have noticed in the app it's reporting £100 more than when I phoned them up yesterday. So it will be interesting on how I would report this to universal credit, as it's  Stocks and Shares so it could go up or down.

UC is calculated based on your circumstances on the last day of your assessment period.

_Jem_

Spoonie_Turtle said:

_Jem_ said:

What I have noticed in the app it's reporting £100 more than when I phoned them up yesterday. So it will be interesting on how I would report this to universal credit, as it's  Stocks and Shares so it could go up or down.

UC is calculated based on your circumstances on the last day of your assessment period.

I will withdraw the money on Monday and then update it all on the last day of the assessment period.

Do they actually look into the accounts before the end of the assessment?

Just wondering if they would want to see statements etc.

Newcad

_Jem_ said:

I'm in two minds on what I should do withdraw £3,000 on Monday or wait until

You mean withdraw £3.000 to deliberately get below the £6,000 limit?

Apart from the fact that doing so would look like a deliberate attempt at D-of-C, (because it would be just that), it would only be an attempt because your capital/savings would not have changed at all.

You would still have that £3,000, just no longer in the ISA, so your capital/savings overall would still be £8,000 plus.

A new cooker, and even if you also get a new sofa, is not reasonably going to cost anywhere near £3,000.